Note: This letter was not originally meant for a huge audience so it is personal in nature. It was my response sent to only Rhonda Bromley, Superintendent Henshaw, and all of the board members after Ms. Bromley personally sent me a copy of her letter on November 10, 2010. I only published it here after the district mass emailed her emotional opinion piece with no relevant facts to 6300 district members, legislators and political leaders across the state and had it published it in the Daily Herald. I decided new readers needed both sides of the story if they were to gain an accurate picture of this controversy.
Rhonda,
Thank you for sending a copy of your email to me and others who have concerns with the Progressive Education which is taking place at Alpine School District.
I initially wrote up a reply which handled many of the points of your email. However, I decided not to send it. As positive as it was in addressing each point you brought up, I sense that it would just continue a back and forth argument. If you would like me to send or post that to address specific concerns, I have saved my draft.
I believe you and many others in the district are very good people who honestly think you are doing the right thing for our children. Progressive Education is how you were trained and this is what you surround yourself with by working in the government-run public sector and by surrounding yourselves with secular national educators, philosophers and national unions. Though there are many good things that happen in public education which you outline well, there are also many far-reaching worldly philosophies that are either openly in opposition to parental and religious rights or are quietly interwoven into the theories taught at major universities, unrealized by many well-meaning professionals.
I believe that you and others at ASD, although working hard to do your best, have been innocently caught up in the ‘philosophies of men’ mingled with positive educational theories. Many of these prominent national secular leaders have ulterior motives which oppose our Christian American heritage. I am not saying that the public schools need to be Christian. What I’m saying is that by continuing to follow such well-spoken and popular atheists and humanists and by using so many of their socialist-leaning philosophies, it will ultimately produce a generation of children who question their own family, religious and political beliefs. I’ve seen it many times with students in California and I’m now seeing it here in Utah as these same philosophies are making their way into our schools.
I tried to explain these concerns to you and Vern Henshaw privately by phone a few times with much detail, but instead of understanding that I am only trying to help, you both seem to view me as your enemy. I am truly sorry for that. Because you are both Christian and members of the LDS church, my heart sank when you both agreed that although you know John Goodlad believes in socialism, humanism and atheism, you will continue to follow his educational philosophies 100%. Of course he probably has some good educational theories, but please realize he interweaves all of these other dangerous concepts throughout his work. Please think about what he would like his end goal to look like. His quotes on education are loaded with moral relativism, humanism, and the complete change of our economic and political structure. Rarely is academics even brought up unless it has to do with how to implement his Democracy Agenda in every class. This should be appalling to a good educator, but not to a social engineer who believes this is the purpose for public education.
I have heard you and Vern say that you don’t have to like everything Goodlad preaches, but you firmly believe in his educational theories and will continue to follow them. May I remind you that you are not hiring him to fix your car or install windows. His philosophies are guiding our children so it is only wise to examine them closely. He pushes the teaching of morals and values yet believes that morals change with the times and are not absolute. He speaks of the purpose of political and social engineering in schools so it is relevant to examine his politics and beliefs about the basic unit of society, the family. He is a socialist and believes that capitalism cannot coexist with democracy. He believes that the state should own the children and that parents have ‘no natural right’ to control their children’s education. Look on http://www.saveasd.com/john-goodlad/john-goodlad-quotes/ to learn more about his beliefs and to find the exact quotes and references.
We have read about these dangers for years by our Founding Fathers, Christian leaders, prophets, even David O. McKay and Brigham Young and in scriptures. We’ve been warned repeatedly about the dangers of false educational ideas present in our educational institutions and the flattery of prominent men. We are constantly warned about the dangers of humanism, in times past and in the present. If not these socialists, humanists and atheists that you currently follow, then who are the dangerous educational leaders we have been warned about and what do they teach that is different than the experts you follow? Our good leaders have specifically warned us of John Dewey because of his anti-God teachings and his belief that there are no moral absolutes. Dewey was one of the original signers of the Humanist Manifesto and started the Progressive Education movement back in 1916 with the publishing of his book Democracy in Education. Because John Goodlad is an honored student of Dewey’s and shares the same belief system, it naturally falls that we should be careful of his teachings also.
We cannot pick good fruit off of a bad tree and we cannot hand pick what we think is ‘acceptable’ from a tree which bears so much bad fruit. There are hidden worms even in fruit that looks delicious. Sometimes we don’t even realize we’ve eaten the worm with the fruit until it’s too late. There is a reason this ‘beguiling’ analogy is pertinent to this discussion. The great deceiver typically disguises his intentions with delicious fruit. If it were nasty tasting, we’d never even consider it.
I hope you take the time to read Boyd K. Packer’s The Snow-White Birds, a talk he gave to BYU administrators and staff in 1995. He warns instructors to be careful of these deceptive worldly philosophies because they harm the students greatly, even eternally.http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=10919
Something that we hope you also consider is this: please keep replies to our writings to the referenced facts we present. Many times there are emotional responses which have nothing to do with the concerns we bring up. Purely emotional responses without any facts have no place in true critical thinking or adult civil discourse about such important topics. This does not solve anything, but seems like a tactic to pull at the heartstrings of employees and citizens instead of actually replying to the facts presented. This tactic is used repeatedly by those who don’t want to address actual facts. I’m sure you are not intending to do this, but how will we know the difference when this same emotional approach is used by others? If you sincerely believe something is nonfactual, please address it specifically. So far, we haven’t seen any honest rebuttal of any facts given, although we’ve read and heard publicly that you say we lie, misrepresent you, hate teachers, and just try to get attention. In your email, you even accuse us of having the need to ‘save’ our janitors. A response is not even required for some of the silly emotional things brought up in these public discourses. I’m sure you realize these are not our real concerns.
We’ve done careful research to produce these very real and disturbing facts. And to clarify on the attention getting comment you’ve made publicly and privately, you will remember it was you who said to me on the phone that you thought we were only doing this to get attention. Those were your words, not mine. Please don’t tell people privately or publicly that I said I was only doing this to get attention. I explained plainly to you that I saw many very disturbing things on your website, as well as those organizations and people with which ASD has aligned itself. People deserve to know the not-so-good things that are happening in the Alpine School District along with the good things so they see the big picture of what our children are learning and how the district is being run.
Progressive Education has taken the place of traditional academic education in this district. What will wake you up to the dangers of this philosophy? The district linking itself to a socialist Green party nut case who believes that our Founding Fathers were predatory elitists out for wealth and gain and the Constitution was a big mistake? Or that this same author writes that Christ is a real vampire? What about terrorist and radical socialist-turned-educator Bill Ayers keynoting at John Goodlad’s NNER Conference where you attend every year? What about last year’s keynote speaker on ‘A Nurturing Pedagogy” who spoke on the importance of redefining evil in a modern world because the ‘chauvinist’ Biblical authors only presented women as evil? When will you see the light about where this will take our children as you continue to pick and choose the fruit of this dangerous philosophy and change a few words which you deem are not ‘reader friendly’? Parents and citizens need to know what is going on. By the time I saw these things it was well-entrenched in the district.
I am not getting paid nor receiving awards for speaking against Progressive Education. Some administrators of ASD, however, are being well paid and nationally praised for following this agenda. They have much to lose in the short term by breaking away from it without the support of the district and community. In the long term, however, we believe the damage done to our children will be much greater by continuing to follow this social democracy agenda. These things need to be addressed by not only the district, but the public who primarily pays for the local education of our children and the salaries of all involved. I certainly do not do this for attention and that was a terrible and false accusation. I only do this because I believe deeply in the successful future of all our children, our community and our nation.
You might believe that you remain safe by changing some of Goodlad’s wording to ‘fit’ within our community, but Goodlad is clear about his intentions and you do follow most of his philosophies as evidenced by implementing his 4 moral dimensions, mission statement, Democracy Agenda and trainings. Since both our Superintendent and Curriculum Administrator have received national awards for implementing Goodlad’s Agenda, we know they are striving hard to please Mr. Goodlad. Changing a few words so the public doesn’t get ‘concerned’ doesn’t change the fact that ASD is still following Goodlad’s teachings. It is evident to us that you must know something is wrong when the Enculturating sign came down after many years and the wording on the district website was dramatically changed to disconnect with anything about Goodlad or his agenda. However, there has been no actual disconnect with Goodlad. Switching out some words to make it sound more palatable to parents isn’t enough. Also, attributing the mission statement to Thomas Jefferson was something new to us since neither you nor the board has ever mentioned this in the entire nine months since this controversy began. More interesting is the fact that Goodlad uses almost these exact words “Educating All Students to Ensure the Future of our Democracy” in his writings. And as far as President Monson’s reference to Horace Mann, a one-time quote by someone who went to Horace Mann Junior High when he was 12 is not the same thing as aligning an entire belief system after a socialist, atheist and humanist. We’re not concerned about a single quote used once in the district and I’m sure you know this by now.
You either believe in Goodlad or you don’t. You either believe in Progressive Education or you believe in traditional academic education which encompasses good principles, including good citizenship. Our hope is that the district and the board can be educated about these two opposing philosophies and then can be honest with parents and the community about which approach they’d like to take. You will not go far by trying to appease both sides which are in direct opposition to each other. Goodlad knew this when he wrote that parents and communities have to be taught to go along with this new purpose of public education or they will be in opposition to it. He was right. I for one will always follow my religious leaders and inspired Founding Fathers before I will ever succumb to a popular humanist educational change agent who gives praise to men when they follow his worldly philosophies. He might be brilliant, sociable and kind, but my description of him here is accurate.
Rhonda, we hope that you, the Alpine School District, the School Board and the public will sincerely do their own research to understand these concerns and to determine the local community’s idea for the purpose of public schooling, not that of Progressive national educators. Many are doing their own research and have come to the same realization as we have and therefore join us in speaking against these dangerous philosophies. I hope that all parties remain civil and stick to facts instead of ‘emotional engineering’. We hope this becomes an ongoing discussion through all outlets, including www.SaveASD.com so as a public body we can determine the best future for our children in preserving this great nation and in helping our students to be successful citizens of this inspired Constitutional Republic.
Sincerely,
Susie Schnell
To read Rhonda’s letter CLICK HERE.
Contention is what I read and feel from Susie’s article here. Bless her heart.
I read only the words of a woman who has time and time again tried to calmly explain her concerns to the district, only to have the district spokesperson send out an emotional, misrepresentation of those concerns. I have been there, heard her speak, and have seen and felt nothing but respect and concern. Gig, you might want to re-read the information given, and do a little study of the history of this situation.
Often the inconvenient truth (even when it’s delivered in a simple and respectful manner the way Susie has done) can be perceived as contentious. I can see how her message might be controversial to those who see nothing wrong with social engineering children with humanist/socialist ideologies but I see nothing contentious about the manner in which she brings up these concerns.
Bless her heart indeed!
What do you mean by “bless her heart”? It sounds a little condescending. Are you saying that because Susie has some very real concerns and outlines them clearly she is behaving in a contentious manner? I can very nicely say that ASD has some SERIOUS problems. That doesn’t make me contentious.
@Gig!
Why on earth would someone choose to bring this so-called “contention” into their life? I commend Susie for taking this on. An honest debate is what will keep us free–asking hard questions will keep us free. We have been trained and conditioned to “let things go” under the demise of “charity” all the while our Republic is being destroyed. I urge you (and everyone) to read the words of the Founding Fathers and do your own research for the truth shall set you free.
Susie, as she should be, sounds frustrated that ASD will not DEBATE the facts and time again bring up emotions and “how much they care”. Just because someone means well doesn’t mean they are doing well.
FYI – I originally didn’t get my facts from SaveASD.com. I have known for 6 years (from the beginning of my oldest childs’ education) that something wasn’t right with ASD leaders and that was only after one public meeting I attended as a young mother. After which, unlike Susie, I made up my mind to distance myself and my children from ASD all together.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!! Just because someone or some philosophy “means well” doesn’t make it grounded in principles. If an old woman needed a car and the neighbors owned 3 but really only needed 2 should I go steal one and give it to the old woman? NO! As lame as the analogy is and we all laugh at this and say “well, of course it would be wrong”, yet, simultaneously we ignore the principles SaveASD.com and Susie and others are trying to (on their own time – and they’re not paid like ASD officials) help wake all of you up!
They are much better than I am. If I were in their positions I would have given up a LONG time ago and said “Save yourselves while I spend my own energy saving and preparing mine.”
“it will ultimately produce a generation of children who question their own family, religious and political beliefs.”
I wonder if this is what the British thought during the Revolutionary War had happened to them. Imagine if Joseph Smith had not challenged his parents’ religious beliefs. Imagine if Christ had not challenged his parents religious beliefs. Are you telling me that your religious and political beliefs are not different, even one iota, from your parents?
You claim you are a critical thinker and yet you don’t want kids to be critical thinkers.
I can only interpret this whole response as: YOU want ASD to teach YOUR personal beliefs and not anyone else’s. That seems to go against everything our nation was founded on.
“YOU want ASD to teach YOUR personal beliefs and not anyone else’s.”
I agree with Bob’s statement (see above). It must be very hard for ASD to please all of its parents – although ASD represents a very homogeneous community, we aren’t all the same. Susie presented her points very respectfully, but the matter is that her points are not shared by all of ASD’s parents. I think it will be impossible to find a philosophy that everybody completely agrees with. I teach in ASD, and I feel that the district is doing a good job. I believe they edited their website and took down the signs in the PDC to help lessen contention. I believe that they will try to make a change in their mission statement. But I don’t believe that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the education students are receiving in this district. My students are amazing. Their test scores are above average, in general they are college bound, and they are very bright and respectful. I can imagine things being a LOT worse! I have lived in multiple states and have been in many different school districts, and I believe that ASD is a great one. The greatest one I’ve seen, in fact. I love working here. That doesn’t mean that it’s perfect, but I don’t believe that it’s weak areas are large enough to merit that the entire district needs “saving”. Perhaps this website would be more aptly called “changetheASDmission.com” or something. From my teaching experience in ASD, although the district has supported Goodlad’s moral dimensions throughout that time, I have not ever felt pressured to teach them in the classroom. I teach the students the standards and objectives of Utah’s Core Curriculum. I don’t have any district material that I’m supposed to present in the classroom. So, perhaps I’m unusual as a teacher or something, but I can speak for my colleagues at my school at least when I say that I don’t think that Goodlad’s philosophies are as pervasive as Susie worries they are. Maybe the district isn’t perfect. Maybe some things need a change. But overall, life is pretty fabulous in ASD, especially compared to the rest of the world!
@ “A Teacher”, thank you for writing. To help you understand the background of my response, this letter was originally only meant to be a personal response to Rhonda’s letter when she sent it to me directly weeks ago when some of her neighbors and friends were concerned about knowing if these things were true on the site. I only sent it to the Superintendent, the Board (both current and elected), and to Rhonda, who all share my religious beliefs. It was not meant to be for a public audience. I realize these beliefs are not shared by everyone in the district and I’m respectful of that. I posted this original version on this website when the district decided not to reply to me personally, but instead chose to publicize Rhonda’s letter all over the state. Because of their decision, my rebuttal was never heard, but her emotional opinion went out to thousands. I felt I needed to clarify our concerns for those who came to the site because they received her letter. I chose not to change it because I wanted to stay honest about my response to her. I apologize if the response offends anyone. It was not meant for a huge audience, but only for a very small group of people who share my religious beliefs.
We on this site ONLY endorse good academics in the district which EVERYONE should agree on, no matter which religion or political persuasion. I am having a hard time understanding why concentrating on academics is being met with such animosity by some district employees. Academics is their business, not social engineering. The ONLY reason I bring up my religion is because it warns people of following these false doctrines and to stand up against them and many people here share those thoughts even if they are not of my faith. You are right…religion is personal. I would not be defensive at all if someone from another faith or no faith at all wrote these same truths. I have never advocated teaching a particular religion at ASD, but I will stand up strongly against the religion of Humanism and the movement of Socialism. This website was formed by parents who are concerned that ASD (at the district level) is overly involved in affiliating and promoting the ideas of a man whose whole mission in life is to resocialize the upcoming generation into the beliefs of Humanism and Socialism. The facts are here. You either agree with this direction or you don’t. Our purpose is to educate citizens and parents so they can make an educated decision about how they want their children to be taught.
The issues pushed by ASD that Susie discusses go against everything our nation was founded on.
To have an administration, ASD, that blatantly admits to aligning their mission and organization with a person/organization that is fundamentally different from mine and nearly every ASD parent’s core beliefs is beyond me. If Goodlad was a product manager for a cosmetic company or a computer programmer I would not have a problem…I’m sure he is a great guy. However, when you have an atheist, humanist as the architect designing an AGENDA that will influence my children’s perception, reality, decisions, values etc.I have a BIG problem with that.
Here’s to “enculturating” our children to be best citizens of the world. My father would be so proud that he sacrificed so much for his children to come to America so they can be “excellent” citizens…something he could have done for us back in Tonga.
Thanks for the post Susie.
Susie, thank you for taking a stand. I think it’s so ironic that we can no longer speak of God or promote religion in school, and yet we fully embrace and freely teach the religion of humanism. I am personally aware of many in the district who are converted to it’s precepts. But WO to the woman who resists such biased views! She must kowtow or be labeled as “contentious.” You are an outstanding human being and I commend you for your courage and your persistence!
You go, Susie! I, too, am very sad that so many are so blind to the dangers of these “subtle” philosophies of men. However, I may be alone in saying this but I believe that all the hubub about administration in schools is really a moot point.
I believe that the public schools were flawed from the beginning. I do not believe they are fixable because they were created to service the general public with differing beliefs and approaches. It is not possible for the public school system to be everything that everyone desires it to be. As a friend pointed out recently, it was set up from the beginning to be a watered down version of education to attempt at satisfying the masses enough.
Besides, we are told in the scriptures “… trust no one to be your teacher.” Mosiah 23:14. Every time teaching is mentioned in the scriptures in regards our children, it is always directed at parents. WE MUST BE MUCH MORE CAREFUL THAN WHAT WE HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST!!
Timothy warned of our time when he said, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after the own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
Whoa! If that doesn’t capture all these educational issues in a nutshell!!
Anyone want to argue with Timothy?
“And also trust no one to be your teacher nor your minister except, he be a man of God,walking in his ways and keeping his commandments”. I am afraid our society has trusted too much in the world and not been careful about who we learn from. Now we have a generation who don’t recognize danger when we see it. Unfortunately our educators already esteem themselves to be more knowledgeable than the parents. Many of them have a difficult time even considering that they might be wrong, because they are so well trained by the progressive professors. Obviously they haven’t trusted in the scriptures as much as they have trusted in man or this would obviously ring true and they would be willing to humble themselves enough to change the problems in our district. Until then we as parents need to do whatever it takes to protect our children from the progressive agenda. Thank you Susie. I think you are brave and wonderful for addressing these most concerning problems in our schools. I could tell the first time you spoke that you were not doing this for attention. It was very obvious you just cared and wanted to awaken the sleeping parents to the danger of progressivism that was in our schools. Most parents would look the other way and hope the problem would disappear.
I must amend my last comment: it was not Timothy who said that. It was the Apostle Paul to Timothy. Sorry about that.
Excellent response, Susie. Calm and well-reasoned. Thank you for all the time and effort you continue to put into this. I know there are lots of things you’d rather be doing and you have nothing to gain–except a better education for other people’s kids.
Thank you Susie and all people involved with website. As a teacher in the district I am so sick of how teachers and employees are bullied by the district. I wish the district would send this response to Rhonda’s letter, to all district employees. Hopefully most employees saw the childish and unfounded accusations that Rhonda made.
How in the world can people so very smart be so dumb at the same time? It’s un-believable to me. Dumb as I may be, I can see clearly that people like Goodlad, are not good for my family. A little money and fame should not influence our educators to drink out of that dirty “ditch,” with an effort to drink only the “pure” part. The ditch is dirty; we want a clear spring. If they are going to training where Bill Ayres is a key note speaker, that should “stop them in there tracks!” if they are honest. I am extremely disappointed that people who are much more intelligent than I am, are so slow to understand basic values. The same thing happened in the pre-existence. Integrity is the key. Praise of the world is not. Pride is not. I see no pride in the letter written by Susie Schnell. I see only honest concern.
I did find Bromley’s emotion in her letter very unprofessional. I was especially surprised by her individual paragraph listing each category of district employee, trying to make them feel like the target of parental concern. I have always seen those who have opposed the district’s mission statement and progressive agenda as pleading to the top district administrators to focus on academics and not politics. As a past public school teacher, I can say that I join in that plea and believe several ASD teachers plead for it, also. Bromley definitely wanted to make the teachers and all other employees feel defensive in order to rile them up. I guess a website entitled “SAVEASD” would be offensive to a top ASD administrator, but apparently the smaller, quieter efforts of parents to have their legitimate concerns heard were not effective.
When I heard of ASD administrators receiving awards from Goodlad, I decided I’d better find out for myself from the primary source what Goodlad believed. I recently started reading “Developing Democratic Character in the Young” co-authored by Goodlad. In this particular book, he seems even worse than what has been said of him by Schnell above. He wants population control. He wants to change the education of the world so that the primary focus is on environmentalism. (I firmly believe in stewardship over the earth, but I don’t believe it should be the focus of education, esp. when the environmentalism Goodlad adheres to is based in scientific claims that are mere theories that have not been proven and are refuted by other scientists.) Goodlad believes capitalism has climaxed and that we now need a “new direction!” He sees the Internet as a mere tool for capitalism. He sees his views of how public education should be run as the solution to world peace. He believes in global education and global government. I must note, he is a very cautious communicator–many of his strongest points are made in his quoting other people (I assume so that they can’t be contributed directly to him?!) I am most alarmed, however, by his desire for global population control–”global” makes it clear that he is not concerned over immigration issues, but specifically over limiting births throughout the world! The ASD would be wise to completely renounce Goodlad and focus on excellent academics. I encourage all to read Goodlad in his own words so that his agenda can be fully exposed. After reading Goodlad and his radical beliefs, I now understand why some would think that the ASD, directed by administrators who follow Goodlad’s educational directives, would need saving.
The “four essential questions” that Bromley detailed sound good–I hope they come from educators that truly care about educating and not “enculturating.” She was wise to acknowledge the district’s move away from Investigations only. It is thanks to the vigilant parents who have been willing to research the ASD that we were able to rid ourselves of exclusive Investigations. Those parents deserve enormous gratitude–I doubt they enjoy being publicly chastised by top district employees for their valiant efforts to ensure our school system remains focused on academics.
Instead of lashing out, Bromley should have focused only on the positive changes the ASD has made toward excellence in academics. She did note positives–that was wise and professional–but then she drastically injured her position when she lost composure publicly, in writing even! She should have acknowledged that the ASD had heard the concerns of parents and had made necessary changes without demonizing those parents. In reading a letter so unprofessionally executed, I wonder if Bromley is emotionally fit to be in the position she holds? I am concerned that Superintendent Henshaw has allowed her to be his voice.
Superintendent Vern Henshaw is a dedicated public servant who has gone out of his way to include the public in public school policy. He listens to reason and excels in keeping a complex organization focused on children. God bless him and the good people at ASD who are obviously taking many undeserved personal hits on this site. I’m so sorry this is happening. Rhonda Bromley is a passionate educator who has personally trained hundreds of parents to be actively involved in their children’s schools. How ironic that she is being vilified here. Sad, sad, sad.
Friends, please examine your hearts and your motives in pursuing these issues. Our community schools are OURS and it is important that all voices are heard, but that should be an orderly and civil process that protects our schools from wrong-minded ideas, not a discordant and hurtful tug-of-words. If there are legitimate concerns, we can work it out. There are persuasive voices on this site, but I also see
*selective omission of facts,
*broadbrush generalizations that are false,
*hurtful and slanderous innuendo,
*pandering to fear,
*selective anecdotal “evidence”,
*religious quotes twisted to mean the exact opposite of what was intended,
*”stirring the pot” of contention, and
*calling good bad and bad good
(Also, there’s no way to check up on who people say they are. People who remain anonymous can say anything and even say it twice using different names.)
Come, let us reason together. We should be about the business of lifting and helping each other and modelling the very best for our children. They are watching and listening. What are they learning from you?
NOTE: Parents should realize that the “Math War” also had another unintended result — The turn to more focus on academics caused a shift in school schedules that seriously crippled many elementary music and arts programs. Real bummer for my kids.
Why is it that about the only comments we get which are in opposition to our site come from those who work at ASD or BYU MSE and have a vested interest in defending Goodlad and his Progressive Agenda? Almost every comment like this comes from an insider who doesn’t reveal they work for the system pushing these ideas. And the same arguments come up about being non-factual, fearful, uncivil, etc. We do not have “wrong-minded ideas” and our facts are correct. I’ve yet to see ONE time where that accusation is raised with some actual proof that what we’re saying is wrong. Thank you for writing Ada, but letting these Progressive ideas go unchecked for years without letting parents know what is really going on is what is causing this controversy.
“Parents and the general public must be reached … Otherwise, children and youth enrolled in globally oriented programs may find themselves in conflict with values assumed in the home. And then the education system … comes under scrutiny.”
— John Goodlad; preface to Schooling in a Global Age; James Becker
I’m afraid before SOME parents could be indoctrinated into these Progressive socialist ideas, we are finding THESE ideas in conflict with values assumed in the home and the MSE and ASD education system is coming under scrutiny. Goodlad’s and ASD’s answer to this is to pull back until parents calm down, soften up the approach, wait till parents are asleep again and then proceed to indoctrinate the minds of our students with Progressive social engineering. Unfortunately for them this time, the American sleeping giant is awake now and is not hitting the snooze button.
For further enlightenment on where Goodlad wants to take his educational approach, please check out his newest NNER conference notes from this October where Bill Ayers keynoted. The Headline? CREATE ACTIVISM FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE. http://www.nnerpartnerships.org/
Not exactly the touchy feely approach parents are looking for. They can see for themselves how the gay agenda, social justice and getting rid of grading in the classroom because it’s ‘not equitable’ are taking the place of good solid academics and principles which our children need for a strong future. We have remained very civil. Civil discourse is not defined as going along with Progressivism and not being allowed to have the freedom of speech without being called liars and fear mongerers. We present facts and are very professional and kind. We realize that some people have very different political and educational ideas so let’s get them all truthfully on the table and get rid of the false accusations and emotionalism which takes away from the true controversy at hand.
Susie, do you know me? To my knowledge, I have never met you. I don’t work at ASD or BYU, unless you count the RADKids Safety program I taught for an After School program under a school grant, so I HAD to be paid a small stipend through ASD. I’m just a mom, but I stayed involved in my children’s schools through PTA and School Community Councils, including the District Community Council. That is how I’ve seen both Sup. Henshaw and Rhonda Bromley in action. My comments were directed not just to your statement, but to some of the comments that followed. I can tell that your concern is genuine, but I know these people. They have spent years building relationships of trust and openness with our community. So I can imagine the pain and feelings of betrayal they must be feeling right now to be accused of participating in any way to the undermining of the moral foundations of our community and its families. That is just not who they are. It is good to fight for what is right, but please don’t take down good people in the process. I am left to wonder whether the intent of those who set up this website is to correct a wrong they see or is it really to unseat some particular individuals on the School Board who stand in the way of another agenda —private school vouchers. (There’s a little innuendo of my own!)
No Ada, I don’t know you. I just wanted to make the point that 90% of the complaints against our website do not come from just ‘parents’, but are made by people with email addresses from BYU who work for MSE, or are ASD employees who get paid by the district, so when I saw your email I figured either you or a family member had a vested interest. Just an observation I wanted to make, not that you are employed with them now. But it turns out that you are very involved with the PTA, a very liberal national organization which supports these same agendas, if parents aren’t aware. The PTA is not the same organization it once was and much of your donated money goes towards things parents would be appalled with. PTO’s are much better.
I’m glad you work in our schools. I also worked in them once a week for almost 2 years until I took my own kids out. There are many good things going on, I agree. I also agree that Rhonda is a very sweet lady who is devoted to her job in the district. She does a good job defending the district. I have been concerned that although these people give out many awards and praises for those who agree with them, like yourself, they brush others aside over and over again who have legitimate complaints. Following John Goodlad, Bill Ayers, and belonging to the National Network for Educational Renewal (NNER) is a very legitimate concern. Seeing posters all over the schools with quotes from socialists, radical gay activists and feminists en masse, with very few motivating posters from Founding Fathers or better role models is a concern. Teaching our children that we live in a Democracy instead of a Constitutional Republic in this age when our government is throwing out Constitutional principles for a more socialist direction is a legitimate concern. I can go on. And many others do by submitting excellent articles for this site. There is no secret agenda. This is what is called real parental concern for children’s education.
My BYU email address is only an indication that I use the service offered to BYU alumni which helps filter spam. I have never worked for BYU.
I know this Ada Wilson. She lives in Orem. She’s a staunch supporter of JoDee Sundberg, who is in her stake. (I think they might even be in the same ward.) Like JoDee, Ada no longer has any kids in the District, yet she’s one of the same people who feel having no children enrolled in the district automatically disqualified Scott Bell from running for the school board. What a hypocrite she is.
“Superintendent Vern Henshaw is a dedicated public servant who has gone out of his way to include the public in public school policy.”
This isn’t true at all. Vern Henshaw is a very stubborn, prideful man. He looks down his nose, quite literally, at those who disagree with him. If he were the saint Ada wants you to believe he is then he wouldn’t pay himself $70,000+ more than the average school district superintendent in the state.
“Rhonda Bromley is a passionate educator who has personally trained hundreds of parents to be actively involved in their children’s schools. How ironic that she is being vilified here. Sad, sad, sad.”
There is some truth to this statement. Rhonda is a kind woman who is passionate about educating our children. However, she is clueless when it comes to what Investigations math and its spin-offs are doing to our children. She’s also confused about the correct categorization of our form of government in the United States. We are a federal constitutional republic, not a social democracy.
“NOTE: Parents should realize that the “Math War” also had another unintended result — The turn to more focus on academics caused a shift in school schedules that seriously crippled many elementary music and arts programs. Real bummer for my kids.”
What kids, Ada? You don’t have any kids in the district!! Stop accusing others of lying and misrepresenting the facts when you’re out there doing the exact same thing.
Ouch! I’ve never been called a liar before. If I had anything to hide, I certainly would not have signed my full name. I invite others to do so.
I have had children in ASD every year since 1984 I think. This year my husband and I accepted a church call to serve that required that we move. Two of our children, who would have been in ASD schools, have made a big sacrifice to be here with us. One of those sacrifices is that they loved their schools. One of my kids tested up a grade in math here.
Yes, my kids were bummed when the school chorus and full art classes were discontinued several years ago. They have been replaced by short 1/3 year specialty art and after school programs run by the PTA.
Yes, I am a friend of JoDee Sundberg. I think she is a great leader and I know she has put heart, body, soul into what she does for our schools.
Yes, I was a proud member of the Utah PTA, which is an entirely different animal from the National PTA. I am aware of the issues that many object to, but, as the state with the highest percentage of parents in the PTA in the nation, I figure Utah can have a very large national influence for good if we have parents and leaders willing to take a stand. Susie, you’d be great! And I mean that sincerely.
I hope that everyone in our community takes an life-long interest in ASD, whether they have kids in the schools or not. I met Scott Bell and he is a very nice man and I would never ask him to step out of the School Board race. I invited him to address our school’s community council last year.
I will vote for the person who believes in the value that public schools offer our community, our nation, and the world and who is willing to do what it takes to sustain continuous improvement of our schools for all our children who want to use them. If the public schools aren’t good enough for my child, then they are not good enough for your child either. Together, we can make a difference. We can have excellent schools.
I will no longer be participating in this discussion — politics is taking a burner way in the back now. ‘Just wanted to defend some friends –and myself!
Ada,
Why do you keep saying you have kids in the ASD? You don’t! All your kids are grown up and graduated. When you continue to suggest you have kids in the district, yet in reality you don’t, it makes me wonder what else you’re saying that isn’t true. For example, I want to commend you for being the first staunch JoDee Sundberg supporter I’ve heard that believes Scott Bell had a right to run for the school board despite having no children enrolled in district schools, yet I don’t know if that’s what you really believe because you have been extremely misleading about having your own kids in the district.
Jared, you must have me mixed up with someone else. I have grown up kids, young adult kids, and young kids —- the youngest is 12. Talk to someone who knows me. None of my children are in ASD this year, as explained above.
Ada,
You are brave for posting your thoughts and opinions about ASD. I enjoyed reading your comments.
Thanks!
Ada,
I know neither side of the parties nor have I obtained my opinion about or from either side and to “an outsider” it all seems so clear that SaveASD wants to argue facts about ideas adored and adopted by ASD (as Rhonda says herself). On the other hand, ASD (and you) consistently pull out the violin to play the “sad” song. Sad? Yes. But sad because “good and presumably honest people at ASD” spent so much time learning about and implementing such unsound principles. Sad because upon hearing the truth about the philosopher’s they chose to follow they dug their heels in and made the parents out to be the enemies. Sad, too, that Susie and SaveASD are spending so much time trying to wake up mothers, like you I might add, and they won’t listen.
Have you read any of the books they have suggested, dug up, researched, and cross-referenced? Have you read any other books you found in your research? Have you learned all that you can about the Founding Fathers from the original sources? Have you studied the rise and fall of great nations throughout history where, repeatedly, Democracy has led to Despotism? Do you (or Rhonda or Vern) understand the difference between a Democracy and a Republic? Do you understand the difference between Capitalism and Socialism? To me this is all SaveASD is trying to do. They are trying to help others ask the hard questions. If not them, then who? Will you ask the hard questions? Have you asked the hard questions?
Yes, we should turn the cheek. Yes, we should be kind but that doesn’t mean we overlook a severely mislead (albeit well-meaning) system. Despite as well “the countless hours” (in ASD’s words) spent on creating such “beautiful documents” and well-thought out programs. Wrong is wrong no matter how much time it took to shape it. May God help us. May God forgive our ignorance. May God open our eyes to the truth one SaveASD website at a time, if necessary.
ADA,
You have accused SaveASD of “calling good bad and bad good.”
I have heard ASD and BYU representatives call John Goodlad good. Do you agree with them? Which good things specifically has SaveASD gotten backwards?
Susie,
Keep it up! I support your efforts. Many are asleep anyway. I have followed this issue somewhat and have to say that what surprised me most is the unexpected contribution of the ASD’s mission statement to Thomas Jefferson. That was just weird. From Goodlad to Jefferson. I guess everything must be fine then. Everyone go back to sleep now.
Guest 2,
Awesome of you for doing your own research! Especially that you find the problem to be worse than what is being stated. Goes to show how careful those making any accusations are being.
WOW! The statement Ada made about the math war is stunning!
“NOTE: Parents should realize that the “Math War” also had another unintended result — The turn to more focus on academics caused a shift in school schedules that seriously crippled many elementary music and arts programs. Real bummer for my kids.”
If I understand this, putting more emphasis on academics is a negative thing? Really? Are our schools not capable of teaching music and art AND academics anymore? “Improved” instruction in math has ‘crippled’ the arts and music? How sad.
Let’s get all our Utah schools to be part of PTO (Parent Teacher Organization) or PTSO (Parent Teacher Student Oganization). All monies collected stay at the school. We don’t need to help fund PTA or NPTA.
And, when you go to switch your school, don’t be intimidated by PTA members who use scare tactics to keep you from making the switch. Go for it!!
Amen! But unfortunately we have come to accept PTA as our other “religion” in this state. Speaking out against the PTA is tantamount to speaking out against the predominant religions leaders. We are sheep, being blindly led.
Ada,
Please do your research and don’t fall prey to the “Utah County Syndrome” where people base their opinion on leader’s position in their church rather than on their history. Don’t forget that many a people thought Ted Bundy was a great man. I am not saying that Dr. Henshaw is like Ted Bundy but we can’t hide the fact that ASD is in lock-step alignment with an atheist and humanist’s philosophies and values MR. Wonderful himself John Goodlad.
I can’t tell you Ada how excited and ecstatic I am that ASD is bent on raising my children to live in a “Democracy” instead of focusing on preparing them to be the BEST THEY CAN BE. I want my children to be exceptional-elite. Is this too much to ask for?
Is it tax time yet? I’m ready to write my tax check so ASD can have another year where they don’t listen to parents but continue to push Goodlad’s agenda.
Sincerely,
Tax Payer that loves to give money to an organization that never listens.
P.S. Please don’t tell me the story about how ASD went and met with all schools and parents to create their agenda. I know this took place but I also know what it takes to create an agenda/mission from the vantage point of a leader “wanting” to give the appearance that it was the “group” that created the agenda/mission. Otherwise, how do you explain that after talking to all the parents and schools with thousands and thousands of “Mormon” parents that we ended up with an “Athiest” agenda. Hmmm, kind a weird hah?
My children have been richly blessed attending Freedom Elementary. We love the teachers, principal and the caring staff. I particularly enjoy seeing the inspiring artwork showing the Founding Fathers, the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.
But as Susan Schnell points out. That is not the issue.
The issue is about John Goodlad and his humanistic, atheistic and moral-relativism approach to education, and why Alpine administrators have chosen to attend his conferences, incorporate many of his teachings, and be sympathectic to his views.
Fortunately, I haven’t seen much evidence of his philosophy integrated at Freedom Elementary.
But then again, there has never been a mission statement suggesting they wanted to “enculterate my children into a political and social democracy” that was placed in the District until wise parents stood up.
I confess I am not an expert on this issue but I do have some knowledge on this and want to express an opinion. I have such a love and respect for Rhonda Bromley. I have seen the MANY lives she has touched and absolutely believe she is guided every day with an enormous task of delivering the finest education to our students. I know how much she loves and cares for her students and have seen it “in the fruits of her labor.” She has heard your concerns and has addressed them accordingly. Let’s trust she knows how to do her job – she is an expert in education.
Parent, I agree that Rhonda is very nice. She is a caring person who is devoted to her job. I wish this was just about being loving and caring. She has not addressed even ONE of our concerns appropriately since we’re not concerned about the ‘niceness’ of Rhonda. We’re concerned about Progressive Education and the district continuing to follow a socialist and atheist’s social engineering agenda. Rhonda is an expert at following orders from the district. That is her job and she does it well. However, the superintendent and current elected board members have not been experts at representing the parents in this conservative district when they continue to marginalize this very serious issue by sending out emotional opinion pieces instead of handling the pertinent facts.
Parent – I’m confused. Rhonda Bromley is the Superintendents Secretary and district spokesperson. She does not have any students. She is not an educator, she is an administrative assistant. Are you confusing her for someone else? And I’m not quite sure how you come to the conclusion that she has heard our concerns and addressed them accordingly. She is NOT a member of the board, nor is she the Superintendent, and because she is neither she is not in the position to address any of the parents concerns in the district.
An expert in education doesn’t make you an expert in administration which is the new role she’s playing now although it’s Dr. Henshaw not Rhonda Bromley that we should be talking about. He’s the vision creator and the reason we’ve gone off track. Rhonda is just being a good soldier. Remember, the skills and values to be a teacher is much different than the skills and values to administer and run an organization like a school district.
I am really tired of hearing public “education” described in ‘holy’ terms as if the employees working there were saints. I might be tempted to believe that this is your true religion and church. However, it is a job and they are compensated well for it. We who do not agree with what they do or how, are forced to pay them. That makes it unholy indeed. Forgive me if I do not appreciate people who work hard for such an abusive entity that strives to raise up a whole generation of socialists who likewise have no respect for individual agency or private property. We have a right to a free market where we can choose to support what we personally want and respect.
After reading Rhonda’s essay, I’ve come to the conclusion that leadership in the ASD isn’t very bright. They probably are not capable of understanding the concerns Susie described. Rhonda sounds like she is arguing from a child’s perspective about an adult topic. Maybe that is just a guise to speak down to the public?
It is interesting to me that ASD leaders decry the creation of a public website and emails sent to one another with knowledgeable concerns about the district’s main focus and mission statement. IF district leaders had been willing to listen and then discuss the philosophies and theories of John Goodlad which have been embraced by ASD/BYU–on a mature, intelligent, respectful, and truthful manner–this web site probably would not need to exist.
There is a disturbing arrogance in the attitude that the professional “education leaders” know it all and that parents and citizens are less educated and knowledgeable about the issues concerning our school district and our youth. It is an attitude that has permeated all their responses. There are an abundance of ‘modern’ educational theories which are not grounded in experience nor common sense.
The secret that is being revealed is that the teachers’ colleges and the whole of the ‘education’ communitiy are generally, sadly lacking in academic rigor, critical thinking and rhetorical skills, because they are too involved in politically correct theories. After all, why bother developing educational excellence when your main goals are perverting the culture. I speak from the experience of going through the whole process waiting for concrete information about how to teach language skills (no “whole language,” see and say (aka glimpse and guess) nonsense did not do it, just in case you really believe that your child is learning disabled) only to find the effective means in a $70 commecially produced manual.