We encourage comments from parents. Please share your voice by adding a comment below.
Here are what other parents in the community are saying:
“I noticed our school told us they were using Scott Foresman for “balanced math.” I wondered why my kids were getting Investigations math homework and then I found out Scott Foresman is the publisher for Investigations math. Nice eh?”
“It’s a sure sign of Fall — back to school night for our third grader at Grovecrest and the sweet, second-year teacher announces that Investigations will be the math curriculum for our youngest daughter.
I know that Investigations is “not approved” by the Utah State Board of Education. But does Alpine have to abide by this?
My wife came home that night fighting mad. We plan to meet with the principal today or tomorrow to voice our feelings.”
“Investigations has always been used as the only math curriculum at Sharon Elementary in Orem. Sharon never even pretended to remove the curriculum. I’ve personally called the district about it. Their response has been to call the principal, Linda Anderson, who tells them that Investigations is only used as a supplement. That is a LIE. The district chooses to believe this woman instead of parents.
I’m a parent there (and would like to remain anonymous with regards to my comments here); I attend Back-to-School Night and listen to the teachers go over their curriculum plans for the year. I’ve been in the classrooms there. Trust me–the only math being used at Sharon that is not straight Investigations is Connected Math in the 6th grade. (Every now and then, a good teacher will quietly & behind closed doors supplement Investigations.)
There are parents at Sharon who have complained against Investigations since it was first brought in. The complaints have never ceased. Parents have tried calling the district to complain about the administration of the school–for Investigations and many other reasons. The district WILL NOT listen. They don’t care what parents say. Instead, they pay the principal an unbelievably high salary & are quite rude to parents who ask for improvement.
Don’t believe anyone who says that Investigations is not the math curriculum being used at Sharon. They are lying.”
“After about the first week of school this year, my sophomore age daughter started complaining about her math class. She was very confused and just wasn’t able to follow what the teacher was going over. I was surprised, because she has always excelled at math and had no trouble throughout middle school. She started going to school early every other day so she could meet with her teacher and go over her homework questions. One night she was very frustrated and said “This textbook is so weird! It is a math book, and it doesn’t even have any numbers in it, it is all words!!!” That’s when a light went on in my head and I said “Let me see that book”. Right on the cover it said “An Integrated Approach”. I was shocked! I thought that the days of Investigations were over!
Well, I got on the phone to the counselor’s office and explained the situation. He was surprised that the teacher was using an Integrated text book, and said that the teachers of that school are supposed to use 80% traditional and can use 20% of any supplemental material they find helpful. I also spoke to the person in charge of math for the entire district and his reaction was the same. I am not sure why they have this rule and are not enforcing it. I know of at least one other teacher who uses this same textbook.
The counseling office did not know which teachers were traditional and which were integrated, so they gave me the numbers of several math teachers. I called each one up and asked questions about which textbook they used and what their curriculum was. After speaking with all the teachers I found one who used a traditional math book and approach to teaching. The counseling office transferred her right away, even though it was past the date for class changes. She has now been in her new class for 3 class periods. She understands the curriculum perfectly, is appropriately challenged, and is succeeding.”
Add to the voice of these parents by commenting below.
My son just entered kindergarten where the goal by the end of the year in math is for the kids to be able to count to 30. The average score among the kids during assesments was 50%. I am appauled! Is there any question that we are not doing these kids any favors?
The correct spelling would be appalled. At this point you are against Paul. Whatever that means. Do your kids a favor and go volunteer in the classroom or school to see what is really going on and how you can support your child with his/her learning. These people on this website are busybodies on a witch hunt deliberately trying to tear down good people who are working very hard to educate your children. I do NOT work for ASD but I am very active in the schools. I see weaknesses but mostly I see good, educated people trying to teach children who may or may not have the support at home that is needed.
ps – Across the board, math scores are higher than they have ever been. Do your research before you become brainwashed by the self serving people who run this.
Before you go name-calling, try addressing the concerns. If this website is for busybodies, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?
I don’t live in ASD, my kids go to Nebo. But what I see going on in ASD scares me to death of ever moving back there. The board has consistently made excuses and used rhetoric to throw out valid parental concerns. What is needed is a board that will listen to their constituents.
Lehi High Grad 2000, thank you for your support. However, please look closely at your own district before you get too comfortable thinking all is well in Nebo. 5 districts encompassing 1/3 of Utah children (or more) are involved in this to varying degrees and each district gives thousands of dollars each year to Goodlad’s agenda. Each district has a representative on the Governing Board, including YOUR superintendent. I strongly urge these districts to also get involved so Alpine does not get all the bad rap. They receive more awards than these other districts, yes, but your money and your superintendents are involved in this also. Here’s the information straight off the website: http://education.byu.edu/deans/psp.html
“The Brigham Young University-Public School Partnership (BYU-PSP) is a joint venture between the McKay School of Education and the School Districts of Alpine, Jordan, Nebo, Provo and Wasatch. This 24-year-old partnership is a setting of the National Network for Educational Renewal (NNER). The foundational principle of the NNER and the Partnership states that the improvement of public education requires teacher training institutions and public schools to work collaboratively to affect positive change in teacher education and K-12 student learning.
The participating districts educate about one third of Utah’s school children (approximately 180,000) and employ over 7,000 teachers. Brigham Young University annually graduates approximately 900 teachers and 40 administrative candidates.
The facilitating arm for the initiatives of the BYU-PSP is the Center for the Improvement of Teacher Education and Schooling (CITES). The CITES office is located on the BYU campus, within the McKay School of Education.
The Governing Board for the Partnership includes the superintendents of the five participating school districts, the dean of the McKay School of Education, and the executive director of CITES. This board collaboratively identifies needs that can be most effectively addressed by the combined efforts of the university and the school districts. Partnership initiatives fall under four categories: professional development, partnership programs, grants and funding, and research and publications.
The effectiveness of the Partnership is based on mutual trust and respect of the partners, as relationships are built, resources are shared, and collaboration and honest communication take place. Through this process and consensus, growth and improvement have occurred, thus bringing about positive change in teacher education as well as student learning–at both the university and public school levels.”
By the way, I must stress that the awards that Goodlad gives out are based on OUTCOME, not INTENT. This means, as innocent as these district leaders might be in not realizing the full impact of implementing this agenda, they are receiving awards nonetheless for actually implementing exactly what Goodlad wants them to implement. Secondly, our district leaders might think that they can pick and choose Goodlad’s philosophies and leave the bad behind, but in actuality, their money goes to ALL of this agenda. We’re finding out this includes the radical gay agenda, population control, and environmentalism (global climate change and redistribution of wealth). So, as innocent as administrators might sound or be, our taxes in all 5 districts (and money going to MSE) are directly contributing to these Progressive national agendas and will eventually be fed to our children if this partnership keeps up.
My own children attended a Charter School with Saxon Math where they thrived, but I was beguiled by a ‘gifted’ ALL program for my upper grader at an ASD school. On paper, the program looked great. Big mistake on our part. I now home school their math as other ‘gifted’ students are at least two years behind. When I discussed his needs with the principal, he wanted to know WHY I wanted my child to be ahead of the rest of the class, as if it was so ridiculous.
Even in ASD programs for gifted students the aim is to ‘go broader’ not go further.
I have now realized that the “No Child Left Behind” bill also means “No Child Get Ahead.”
Glad you finally came to that realization. I find if I put “un” in front of every new idea that is thrown at us or think of it in exactly the OPPOSITE way it is stated, it is usually more true! Looks like your getting the idea too!
When my now-adult daughter was in Jr High (Oak Canyon, Lindon), I was shocked one day when she came home stating that they had learned in class that DNA evidence proved that Thomas Jefferson had an illegitimate relationship with one of his slaves, and fathered her children. I had recently read about the scientific evidence, and in spite of it’s characterization in the news, the evidence did not support that conclusion. I equipped my very-capable daughter with an article from Mona Charen on the subject, and sent her back to school the next day.
Her report was interesting. The teacher was shocked at what the DNA evidence actually did (and did not prove). She had taken her quotes straight from the current school-district-approved textbook, which had clearly misrepresented the facts.
It just goes to show that even well-intentioned teachers are understandably misled by the materials they are given, and the philosophies espoused by the administrators that select books, and curricula.
We need to ensure that we elect board members and legislators who are interested in providing the opportunity for a quality education, rather than indoctrinating our youth, as has been the case in recent years.
We had our children in an ASD elementary school for two years. My son’s second grade teacher told us point-blank that she doesn’t do “times tables or spelling” in class. She told us that if we, as parents, should be teaching this at home. So we taught him at home, every morning for an hour, before sending him to school. Finally we realized he wasn’t learning much of anything else at school we put him on the waiting lists at Mountainville Academy. When his name wasn’t drawn, we put him in a private school. Tuition costs money but sending our son to a school where they teach reading, writing, and arithmetic, as well as a respect for our forefathers, is priceless.
We had our daughter in an ASD elementary school for two years. She is a voracious reader, and even as a fourth grader she would read a book a day. What a surprise when she received low grades for reading. At a conference with the teacher, her teacher kept saying “don’t worry about it, don’t worry about it.” She finally admitted that she artificially deflates the kids grades at the beginning of the school year, then gives them good grades at the end of the year, so her students can “show improvement.”
We put her on a waiting list for a charter school, didn’t get in, and she is now thriving at a private school where academic standards are high and where students’ confidence grows through academic achievement.
I hasten to say that I know there are good teachers teaching in ASD. But they are in a system that is obsessed with the latest “educationally correct” methods, that have been proven over and over to fail the children. For the teachers and for the students, it is time for a new school board.
I have been concerned about ASD for some time. Investigations math was the beginning for me, but I’m concerned now about the influence John Goodlad is having in our district. I learned about him independently without knowledge of this site.
Northridge Elementary’s theme last year was “Green Revolution”. I took my concern over this progressive idea to the principal. She told me it was inspired by John Goodlads book the Moral Dimensions of Teaching, page 322 to be exact. I was read the specific paragraph over the phone. She told me the idea was hatched by the PTA and she endorsed it. I did some personal research on Mr. Goodlad because I’d never heard of him or the book and when I was read the excerpt something didn’t sit right with me.
After doing my own research I was astonished and troubled that something so radical could be present in Utah County. I am still confused as to why BYU would partner with such a man. I prepared a paper on Mr. Goodlad’s deep rooted views and presented it to the principal, thinking she must not truly know what he stood for. I showed her how John Goodlad was not only a socialist, but had ties to invidivuals who have ecocentric beliefs. In a book entitled, Developing Democratic Character in the Youth, which John Goodlad was a contributor, there is an essay entitled: Making Democracy Real by Educating for an Ecocentric Worldview. Ecocentric is a term in ecological political philosophy used to denote a nature-centered, as opposed to human-centered, system of values.
The pincipal dismissed me, then patronized me and said the Green Revolution was only about students making goals and becoming better people. What that had to do with “green” or “revolution” I have never figured out. I questioned the “revolution” reference and she said it was non-violent and only meant “change”. Yet there was a picture of the principal dressed in fatigues on the office door, and every child that year was given a dog tag. She thought me crazy and Green Revolution and dog tags continued through all last year.
I have been discouraged, thinking I was alone in the belief that socialism is starting to permeate our school district. I thought I was the only one who believed John Goodlad was a dangerous man. The ASD mission statement is in my opinion shocking and rationalizes in a ridiculous manner. Anyone who is familiar with John Goodlad can see his ideology clearly reflected. I recently was introduced to the Save ASD web site and support its cause. This tide must be turned. We need a new school board.
My oldest 2 children, one a graduate, the other a senior, both started their education with Investigations. They both have struggled with math because of this. It was frustrating because the ASD school board received numerous complaints when they first began this program but paid no attention. I know they have information that proves that this math program was not in our children’s best interest, but they persisted. It is time the parents take back our district so that our kids can receive the education they need.
Maybe this is a dumb questions but isn’t there any way that we can get these administrators out especially those on the board. Why don’t we all get together and form some sort of “legal” protest or go to all the neighborhoods with petitions in our hands and knock on doors to get more people informed about all of this! Is there someone out there who had organized anything like this. It seems as though that would get more attention.
Yes, there is something you can do! Go door to door and inform your neighbors with your concerns. Election day is two weeks away!
Mary, we have elections in November. That’s how we can “legally protest”. After new board members are elected who know what is going on and actually listen to parents, we will start seeing a change. A flyer is on its way so people can download it and pass it out. You are right. We need lots of help to spread the word. Please LIKE this on facebook, and send the link to all of your friends. We have to wake people up in the next couple of weeks before elections and then be active parents to watch this district. Thanks for helping!!
Most of the board does know what is going on, and agree with it, regardless of the parents’ wishes.
I moved here from another county thinking I was moving into the heart of conservative Utah. Boy was I shocked then when I went to the Alpine School districts homepage and their mission statement is: “Educating All Students To Ensure The Future Of Our Democracy”. Right away a red flag went up for me, because we are a Republic not a Democracy. Then a few days later a friend (who also moved here from another county) calls me and asked me if I know what kind of a school district we moved into. I was beginning to see the light. I received an email about the links that were negative and referred to Jesus as a vampire and etc. etc.. They are now missing from the Alpine School Districts site. I called the district to complain and they told me all that stuff had been removed and it was a misunderstanding. I also complained about the use of the word Democracy in their mission statement and they said I was overreacting because it didn’t mean anything “political”. I had to see for myself if the sign “Enculturating the Young into a Social and Political Democracy” was really there on the wall of the Development Center, sure enough they are there. The 3 words that scare me are: “enculturating”, Social, and “Democracy”. They should not be encluturating my children toward anything political in my opinion. They should be teaching Reading, writing and arithmetic right? Then the word Social is bothersome because we already have too many thinking we need to be a socialist nation right now and I do NOT want to be owned by the government. If they are brain washing my children then they are trying to recruit new members. My daughter has already come home and told me we should not use our electricity very much because her teacher said it is killing the polar bears. Ridiculous! Then the word Democracy, because we are not a democracy. Like I stated earlier. I was very tempted to put my kids in a private school, but they are too expensive. I could not afford to put 5 kids into private schools. I decided to just make sure my kids were well informed myself and hoping that is going to be enough.
My son is in Jr High and has excelled at math, and was taking high school math, came home a few weeks after we moved here and said he did not understand the math it surprised me. He has never had problems with that subject. I told him to go talk to the teacher after school and go in during the class period they had for kids who needed extra help. He did that for about a week and then he came home and told me the teacher always acted like he was stupid for not getting it. I finally had enough and talked to the counselor and got him transfered out of the class. He has never had another problem with math. I had not heard about “investigation Math” at that time, but I am sure that is what he was being taught and why he wasn’t understanding it.
I decided to try and get a job as an aide at the school of my younger children and succeeded. After starting there I asked someone what they thought of the “Enculturating our Youth into a Social and Political Democracy” sign (that is hanging in the school as well) and they said they did not have a problem with it. What is wrong with people? Do they not see a problem here? I feel we have all become too complacent and need to become more involved with what is going on at school with our kids.
I am so grateful for all the parents in this district including my friend who is trying to stand up for our children and all the people who have put together this website to inform people. Please vote for a conservative in your district that can get these people that want to “enculturate” our children out of office. We need more people to “stand for truth and righteousness”.
In this election season, the left-leaning political goals of “educators” Bill Ayers, John Goodlad, and yes, ASD Superintendent Vern Henshaw, are becoming known: “Enculturating our children into a social and political democracy.”
Given the politically-charged ASD motto (and, more significantly, the district & board’s disturbing lock-step adherence to John Goodlad’s “Moral Dimensions” and “Agenda for Democracy”), does anyone happen to know (or care) what the political affiliations of the current ASD board members are? (Please don’t tell me that they check their politics at the classroom door, because Goodlad/Ayers are ALL about politics.)
Go Wendy Hart AND Morgan Philpot!
We have all of our children in charter schools because of Investigations math. Our oldest who attended Highland Elementary from K-5, tested 1 year behind in math skills upon entering the charter school in 6th grade (despite being an A.L.L student). By the time she entered 9th grade, she was testing two years ahead! She had been taking Saxon math up until that point. She is now in 11th grade and taking her second year of AP Calculus. She scored a 4 on the AP exam last year in 10th grade. Saxon math and a terrific junior high math teacher saved her. I shudder to think where she would be if we had left her in the ASD. ASD is ruining the potential of thousands of children because of their indoctrination. It needs to stop!
It has been a real challenge to get parents to dig deep enough to realize the threat of socialism in our school district. We have many good teachers that do get it, and their hands are tied in my opinion. Many parents are aware and the current school board just will not listen. They were on the defensive from the beginning (last March).
We must elect district school board members that will communicate with parents, listen with an open mind, and keep politics out of our schools.
And this math situation…..we are far behind in statisics. Surely parents want to have the best programs for their children. Let’s explore and find the best math program for the children, and leave politics and pride out of it.
The elite ASD administration and board need to go! Why should a few elitest make the majority of parents feel like We have the problem. I am tired of the ASD dumming down curriculms and not emphsising the basics. I had my children in local charter school for the past 6 years and It was the best decision I have ever made. Now they are in HS and Jr. High and boy is that a joke no homework, in US history the tests are open note. I could go on and on it is such a dissapointment to see that our tax dollars are pretty much funding a Big kid day care.
I am so happy to see that so many ASD parents are seeing the light. I was educated in public school and would NEVER have noticed a problem if I hadn’t gotten my children out of the system. Now it’s as clear as day, but only by contrast. It’s pretty hard to see the forest for the trees when your right in the middle of the forest! Besides “everyone is doing it”, it can’t be that bad, right? WRONG. Glad to know that concerned parents are waking up.
So sorry, especially to families that move here specifically looking for something better. We do have great people teaching, but remember they were educated by the same system. Most of them do not know they don’t know! Be kind in educating people about your concerns and hopefully they will become more aware and active in their children’s education.
Very enlightening and beneficial to someone whose been out of the circuit for a long time.
- Kris
The purpose of public education is the teaching of academics, not enculturation into a social and political democracy. We elect a school board to ensure that administrators fulfill their obligations to their “customers”, the parents that pay their salaries through taxes.
When the school district has drifted so far off course, it is high time we replace our school board (and in turn some administrators) to ensure the high academic standards our children deserve are met.
Mum’s the Word said on: October 27, 2010, 6:17 pm
I have had issues with the math program in the ASD since my family moved into the area several years ago. I pulled one child from the regular school and sent them to a charter school where we were told they would have to repeat their math class (they had gotten an ‘A’ in math as the previous school.)
Last year, my child went to regular school again. At my child’s parent/teacher conference I showed my concern about the math. After being at the charter school, it just seemed something wasn’t right at the regular school. I was informed that the school was trying something different with math. The school decided to place students of varying capabilities in one classroom, hoping, somehow, that the students with special needs would succeed better in math. It was not working and would not be repeated the following year. Instead of everyone moving forward in math, the class was stifled in its growth and was not able to complete the year’s curriculum. I was not happy about a child’s wasted year in this math program.
I went to my child’s counselor and when I told the counselor of my findings, the counselor, with an edge in the voice, said, “You are not supposed to know about that!”
Those comments show me that, yes, indeed, there certainly is secrecy in the ASD. It is not as open and transparent as some would like us to believe.
What makes all you people feel entitled to control what happens in every classroom in ASD? You do seem to have a sense of entitlement about how your schools should be run to fit your views of the world. I read a great article on mormontimes.com a few weeks ago about entitlement. It was aimed at BYU-Idaho students, but the message still applies to us all. Just because we pay taxes doesn’t mean we are entitled to have things our way.
We need more compassion and understanding of others, not anger and resentment. These two latter things are what I have seen created in my neighborhood by the people who run this site.
I cannot believe the attack on public education that is happening. Yes, my kids are taught things that are different than I would teach them at home, but I dialogue with my kids about the issue. I do not condemn their teacher. I do not discredit their teacher. I merely discuss why I feel differently. Then I leave it up to my children to decide for themsleves what they want to believe. I cannot believe that any teacher will have a bigger impact on my children than I will.
I give every teacher the right to have personal opinions based on their life experiences and beliefs, just as I have my own. As long as a teacher is not abusing my child, I will trust them completely in helping them become a better person by exposing them to different ideas. I don’t believe everything my parents do and I don’t expect my kids to be clones of me.
It is my hope that some of you people out there can realize you are not promoting good. You make conjectures and interpretations and are trying to thrust them onto everyone through fear tactics. Claiming that Dr. Henshaw is a liberal with a progressive agenda is ridiculous. Just because his life’s experiences have helped him see things differently than you does not mean he is the evil terrorist some of you have tried to proclaim.
Becky, you have missed the point.
This has nothing to do with entitlement; it has to do with freedoms, voting and the right to have a voice.
Let’s take a look on a broader scale. Are you satisfied with the current administration (President Obama) and how they have run this country? In 2 years would you vote in their favor?
If not then…
“What makes you feel entitled to control what happens in every state in [the USA]? You do seem to have a sense of entitlement about how your country should be run to fit your views of the world. Just because you pay taxes doesn’t mean you are entitled to have things your way.”
Looking at the statement in this light does it make any sense? Would you be shocked if someone said this to you as you voiced your opinion of how poorly the country is being run; or better yet, publicly stated facts on a website that reached viewers outside your immediate circle of influence?
Becky, we want our teachers to teach academics. They should be entitled to do that without being told by the district to push Goodlad’s Democracy Agenda in every class. Now THAT is controlling by the district. Let our teachers teach what subjects they are best in.
Can we please stick to facts and not emotional exaggerations? We’ve never said Vern was an evil terrorist or implied it. When you say things like this you are not helping to validify your point.
Our concern, repeated over and over in just about every article, is not about our good public school teachers. It is that the district is following the Progressive teachings of an openly socialist humanist, John Goodlad. We are not trying to knock the teachers down for having opinions. Of course that is OK. But don’t teach opinions as fact or revise history because of a political leaning. Their job which was delegated by parents is to teach core subjects, not to get involved in social engineering which Goodlad tells them to do.
You want us to keep quiet about teachings which are contrary to the majority of parents in this community. These are not fear tactics. We are merely citing facts and direct quotes from these leaders. Is it scary? Yes. But our only intent is to inform. We would rather parents have all truth on the table to be able to vote and have a say on which direction they’d like to see the district take. Since the district is not being honest about substituting Progressive Education for Traditional Education and we found this out through extensive research, it is our duty and responsibility to let parents know what is going on.
You can agree or disagree with the political leanings of the district, but we believe schools are for teaching academics, not pushing Progressive politics. If the district wanted to make that directional change, they should have let the parents know openly and honestly. And of course we want our children to be exposed to different ideas, but we don’t want them to be politically indoctrinated. Let’s give them a good academic foundation first so they can make those decisions as they get older.
You really believe you represent the majority of parents? I find that quite interesting, when a SL tribune article quoted Mr. Norton as saying he had emails from only 1,000 people out of almost 100,000 within ASD borders.
I have followed your arguments over time and you have changed them. A year ago you were very much against teachers. You have obviously softened your message to try and reach others.
As for believing that our district is teaching Socialist things and pushing teachers to do that, it sounds like you are using investigations math to make that work out. Goodlad is not the only thing that district administrators read. They obviously glean some ideas from Goodlad and make them into their own ideas. This is what all educators are taught to do. Read, research, and make good ideas work for your school and community. The district is not filled with brainless zombies doing whatever they have read in Goodlad’s books. You really do seem to have no respect for the educators of ASD.
You have also proven my point on the fact that you want your ideas pushed instead of anyone else’s. You label Goodlad a Humanist, socialist, liberal, and progressive. That means you identify yourself as different than that. Your implications show that you want your views promoted and not any one else’s.
“Social engineering” is happening all the time in the world. Here in Utah we are engineered into a certain political party’s beliefs all the time. There is a dominant religion in Utah that socially engineers us as well. I am not saying that is a bad thing, just pointing out that it happens.
It is difficult to believe that the administers of this website do like regular public education. They support candidates who have founded charter schools and have never let their children attend a public school. On the Utah’s Republic website, that administrator stated once that he would like to see all schools run privately and let parents decide to send their kids where they will. That is a similar anti-public education attitude of some of our State politicians that have signed the infamous petition. Are you people really trying to save ASD or tear it down? Your actions since the investigation math issue have shown a tendency to tear down rather than build up. I have only seen an attempt to destroy the credibility of ASD and its employees. Also, your so called research is nothing but stories from biased individuals.
Your claim of school should only be a place for only academics is quite bizarre. School is a social, as in societal not economy, setting. As I stated earlier, if we only want our kids to know our views of the world we should put them in a place where that is all they will be exposed to. Public schools are meant for the public to interact. We need human interaction with others and their ideas if we are to succeed as a people and nation.
Imagine if Joseph Smith’s parents had not let him question their faiths and let him explore many other religions. His parents are a great examples of how we should all be. Our kids need to be exposed to others’ ideas in order to discover for themselves what is truth. We must teach them and then let them govern themselves. We cannot force them to follow in our footsteps. That is indoctrination. Again, I don’t live in fear of a school district controlling my children and being a bigger influence on my children than I am. I feel bad for those of you that truly think ASD has more sway over your kids than you do.
So you’re inferring that only 1,000 people in ASD are disgruntled with the district school board, and that 99% of ASD residents are pleased? Did you also notice the election results this month? 5,284 residents ousted Donna Barnes, 4,214 voted against Chrissy Hannemann, and another 2,392 voted against JoDee Sundberg.
If you are going to make a point, use facts and real data, not inferences and assumptions.
You assume it is fear that motivates parents? Consider this: parents (up until now) have TRUSTED ASD with the education of their children. When that trust has been lost, you get websites like saveasd.com. Simply put, restore the trust.
Don’t forget that Osborne (supported by Norton) was ousted after only one term. I guess you could imply that parents don’t particular care for the “saveasd” solution either. Hanneman’s ouster was no surprise since she lives in the hotbed of conservative radicalism. As far as Paula Hill’s election: Donna Barnes received most of the Lehi vote while Hill received most of the SS and EM vote. It is by far the largest school board district both in population and geographic area. It came down to SS and EM residents wanting their own representative rather than political ideology. Those catchy signs by Hill were a factor as well. She ran a good campaign exactly to Oak’s specifications: The one who has the most signs wins.
What makes me feel entitled? First, these are my children. Second, the teachers are paid with my money.
So, without “your” money, the school district would cease to function. Don’t forget, there are many taxpayers out there besides you, including teachers who taxes as well for their children. Also, just because a teacher is paid with taxpayer dollars of which you might contribute a few cents doesn’t make them your personal servant for you to order about at will. Like it or not, you are part of larger community that doesn’t necessarily agree on everything.
Here is the fruit of Goodlad: My daughter came home from her charter school upset at her government teacher. I asked her why and she said because HE says what HE is teaching is true, and the left is error. I asked her if the facts he was teaching were true or not. She said she didn’t know. We teach our children American history and principles, so I said “You don’t know what the truth is?” This time she said she didn’t care what was true, she’s not going to fight for it. The next day she was still upset, and excitedly said she’s going to fight the teacher. I asked why and she said because he says what he’s teaching is true, and liberalism is wrong. So, she doesn’t care what the truth is and she won’t fight for it, but she will fight anyone who has the gall to declare truth and error. I asked her why even go to school if you’re not seeking the truth, and if the teacher can choose to teach anything he wants? Why spend all that time sitting around and swapping ideas? And I told her that this attitude is the goal of the leftist educationists, that they want her. We are patiently working with her, and I believe she will not fall from the truth that we are teaching her. But, I will no longer send my children to public schools, NEA or charter.
When I saw this website, I about wanted to cry.
Whether it was your intention or not, you have attacked every single individual striving for a better world and better education.
I’m not saying ASD is perfect, but it strives for it by constantly changing and working for better programs, better implementation of programs etc etc.
Investigations was approached the wrong way. I admit. But now that I’ve given it a chance, I’ve realized that I wished it was around when I was young. It’s not a strict program with only one way to figure out an answer to a problem, not just rote memorization, and not just spouting off facts because it’s from memory.
It’s involved, it teaches different strategies. ASD recognized that too many children were falling behind in math and reading because there was only one program. Investigations offered a way to expand the program.
Instead of thinking 9+9 =18 they think of ways to come to the same conclusion in different ways, because to some that first problem just doesn’t make any sense at all. Just because it makes sense to you does NOT mean that it is right for everyone. Think back to your elementary school days, think of the signs that some of your classmates didn’t understand how math worked, think of those that graduated being behind because if they didn’t get it a teacher would say ‘oh well, they’ll get it some day’. Most of them didn’t get it.
I work with adults who struggled with math, reading, science and all the ‘core’ curriculum that you so desperately cleave to. They wish there had been more than one way taught so that they had an option to choose.
ASD is offering options, they are offering a chance for parents and teachers to choose which way is best for their child, for not every child is the same.
The concept that there are different ways to arrive at the same destination holds true in education.
You’re crippling your children. And you’re crippling those that dare to do anything about those that are falling behind.
And as for those that insist that their students get ahead, go for it. But realize that education in numbers and words is not everything they need to learn. They need to learn socially as well, and they need to learn it within their own age group.
Be careful. Or you will be setting your children up to fail.
Just love them, support them, and take your own advice: GET INVOLVED, but in a positive way. This is not positive. This is detrimental, and the way to get involved positively is to volunteer in your child’s classroom, to help with their homework, try to learn the ways that the teachers are teaching so that your child has more than just one option.
Seriously. Don’t be so one-minded.
@ Bobbi, I DID volunteer. Once a week for almost 2 years! I went on the field trips, I saw what was going on in the classrooms. The people supportive of this site did the same thing and many still do. It is a big misconception to think we are uninvolved parents who just complain. There are some great things happening in the classrooms, but that doesn’t mean we ignore the Progressive direction that this district is following while our kids suffer. When I tried to bring these things up, I was told I was the only one who ever had those problems. Now I find that this is a common saying among district leaders and principals. Many parents were complaining about the same things, but no changes were being made. Then this huge issue of Progressive Education and the John Goodlad Agenda appeared. Clearly, some of you who are writing in do not understand the scope of the problem if you keep thinking it is about teachers. This is a national agenda which many parents had no idea was in our school district here in the heart of conservative Utah. Of course we want different approaches for the different ways our children learn, but embracing the morals, values and politics of humanists, socialists and atheists who guide this district’s philosophies is not on that list.
Just look at the data. At the school I teach at there is a whole grade level that still continues to strictly teach investigations. Every year that grade level is the one with declining math scores. Investigations does have some good supplemental tools. The program was never meant to be a core curriculum. Investigations does help some kids, but the majority become more confused about math when using investigations. This website is not “so one-sided”. They are requesting and giving options and data based on scientifically, research based programs. The district has not done this.
I happened to be reading the forward in Noah Webster’s 1828 Dictionary this morning. I have been following the comments on this website and would like to add this preface to his dictionary. Yes, Noah Webster himself.
Upon Horace Mann rests the blame for removing from the curriculum the study of an American philosophy of government. Opposed to the fundamental conceptions of our American Constitution namely, property, self-government and voluntary union, Horace Mann, “the father of progressive education”, removed the spirit of Constitutionalism and allowed only the letter to remain. The Bible, which Noah Webster indicated as the source of “the principles of republican government’ was closed to its primary function–namely to testify of God’s redeeming grace for mankind through Jesus Christ. Actually, it was Horace Mann in 1840′s who removed the Bible and its sacred purpose from the schools, not the United States Supreme Court in the 1960″s.
Through the European pilgrimages of Horace Mann and his contemporaries the alien seeds of foreign ideologies and philosophies of education were planted in American soil. The independence from European “maxims of government” which Noah Webster has worked so diligently to achieve was subverted during the early years when American education was subverted during the early years when American education was made the ward of the state. A Federal Catechism, part of the American Spelling Book had introduced civics into the cirruculum in 1794. It gave a short explanation of the principles of the American Constitution and defined America as “a representative republic.” The “defects of democracy” were discussed and students learned distinctly why a “federal representative republic” is “a better form of government.” Shortly after schools became organized under state systems, the substitution of democracy for republic was made.
Today the necessity for restoring the clarity and identity of Constitutional meanings is obvious if we are to make substantial progress in rebuilding the foundations upon which this nation was established. Without a standard of reference for American’s history the philosophy of government students can not be expected to make the distinctions and discriminations between similar terms used in history tests today.
Thank you Noah Webster
In my oppinion this pretty well sums it up. Noah Webster understood this in 1828, why is it so hard for us to understand it 2010. I guess because we have to progress. Right?
It is long past time to eliminate the socialist funding system that ASD uses. I have one child in the district, yet pay the same amount in taxes as my neighbor who has EIGHT children currently attending district schools. ASD has the lowest funding per student in the country because the families with few students are forced to subsidize the educational costs for the baby factories. This is Obama-economics at its worst and in Utah county is completely unsustainable. The fiscal polices of ASD need to reflect our conservative values as much as the curriculum, and the current system rewards those that don’t pull their own weight. I’m calling on our newly elected board members to end this Marxist funding policy. If families want to have large amounts of children, that’s great. However the district needs to have them pay for for the additional educational services they access instead of passing the financial burden to those those not using additional resources. Personal responsibility is at the core of our conservative values, and ASD needs to set the example instead of creating yet another group of welfare recipients.
Reagan -
Many of your points are good. I am a little put off though by your tone towards families with lots of children (“baby factories”). Making the assumption that they don’t “pull their own weight” is a little unfair don’t you think? Without knowing that families income level, you don’t know how much they are paying in income taxes. 100% of that amount goes to public education. Yes, their property taxes may be similar to yours as you are neighbors, and that amount goes directly to the school district. But you must remember that there are homeschooling families who pay the same taxes that you do yet have no children in the schools, nor does the retired couple with no children left at home. The current system taxes everyone, regardless of number of children, based on property values. I’m not sure how fair or accurate it is to say that a family of eight is pulling less weight than yours, when it could just as easily be claimed that the single property owner is paying for your one child, as the portion of your property taxes that goes to the district most likely do not reach the level of the per-pupil spending amount expended by the district to educate your child. Also of note is the fact that in Orem we are paying just over 70% of our property taxes to the district, when other cities are paying less. This tax varies by municipality, so if you don’t live in Orem, we may be paying more than you are. If you don’t live in Orem and pay less tax for your one child, then it could be said that those of us in Orem are subsidizing your child’s education as well. I know a few childless couples who are paying the same rate as their neighbors with children, and I’m sure they are happy to pick up the tab to educate a child in place of their own.
We have also been led to believe that the districts “per pupil spending” amount is how much the district actually has available to spend on students. This is inaccurate to say the least. The process of funding is complicated, and I don’t claim to know all of the ins and outs of it all, but I believe that the district receives far more money per pupil than we are told in the per pupil data. Public ed has become very good at spinning the economic tale to make it sound more dire than it actually is.
If we follow your logic of families paying for the children they have, we would need to completely re-work the educational funding system. Really, what you may be proposing is more likely to be achieved in a non-governmental, private enterprise system, which actually sounds good to me! Until then, the current funding practice of making every property owner pay a percentage of their property taxes to fund public education is about as fair as I think a governmental agencies is going to get!
This funding system is what you get when the federal government takes charge. But that’s not even the worst part; the worst part is the control, which was Mann’s goal, and is the main cause of so many of the problems. True local control would never have allowed the deterioration, as parents are the best guards of their children.
The politics in this state and on this website are hypocritical, at best. Public school is a social program. True conservatives and libertarians, as many of you claim to be, should take their children out of these public funded schools and put their money where their mouth is, home school or private school. I am tired of living in a state who claims to be conservative but yet has one of the highest state tax rates in the country. A lot of the “conservatives” on this website will also be the first to complain when the country and state have to do something drastic to social security and medicare. Charter schools are an extension of the public funded education and increase in government by increasing administration costs and building costs. You all sit around and discuss Goodlad and other socialist ideals and how they are harming our society. Stop the discussion and start some action! That action may be a huge sacrifice to you but that is what it is going to take to be a true conservative. Take care of your own children! Home school them or send them to a private school and stop complaining about public education!
@af22, Good comment! I have to agree with most of your points. To point out though, many of the parents contributing to this site (in articles or by making comments) are not hypocritical, but have taken their children out of ASD only after finding these things out (me for example). Some want to make a change but can’t afford private schools or wouldn’t know where to start with homeschooling. Some are in transition. Many enjoy their good teachers in their local public schools but just have a concern about the district following an Agenda which they see as contrary to our community and are hoping that by speaking up the emphasis will change back to academics instead of social engineering.
This site is about educating parents to be more involved in whichever kind of education they choose for their children. Discussion precedes action and must be in place as more and more parents are only beginning to wake up to Progressive Education. If they choose to keep their children in public schools, they should be educated about the national direction this district is persuing since it is not so “transparent” unless you know what to look for. Before we started speaking up publicly, many parents knew this was happening in other places in the country, but had no idea that Progressive Education was being taught here in Utah County. They are extremely thankful and I receive many emails, phone calls and comments daily for the good that we are doing. Some people will be fine with Progressivism being taught and agree with Goodlad and Ayers that social engineering is most important. But many would disagree. Our thought is that we just want people to know what is inside the beautifully wrapped package before they buy it.
The fact still remains that ALL of us pay high taxes to our public schools and have every right to ask for better representation in our community. These children, whether born to us or not, are the next generation and their education matters to all of us.
Maybe you good parents should start with the Utah state legislature and find and weed out those members who voted for charter schools and who also own buildings that the state now rents from them for these charter schools. The fact of the matter is public schools are a government social program and if parents don’t like them they need to make some sacrifices.
I am on the same page in terms of indoctrination in schools and what the federal government is doing to bring this to pass. I am on the same page that the word “ENCULTURATING” that was posted at ASD was beyond creepy. However, your tactics are nothing short of a witch hunt mentality. You have handled the whole situation, including your most recent debacle inappropriately. You are making the rest of us, conservatives, look like whack jobs. You need a better spokesperson, someone with more class and decorum to handle your disagreements. I have a few questions for you folks. How long has it been since you have walked into a classroom? Or for that matter visited with any rep from the ASD? Have you been on a community council? I believe that you are doing the same thing that the far left does. You don’t investigate and have an agenda and spread the word. Shame on you. Your current tactics of attacking the person versus the message is deplorable. I would be interested in having a one on one with any of you to discuss better ways of handling disagreements and philosophy.
Thank you,
Sarah Beeson
Utah State Delegate
and AF Resident
Sarah, I’m glad you are on the same page with us about the Enculturating sign, indoctrination in schools and how the federal government is helping to bring all this to pass. That’s a great first step! I hope you continue researching to know that the things on this site are indeed true. But if you believe in all these things, it doesn’t make sense that you criticize us for posting the truth about Alpine School District or McKay School of Education when we have references to back up all of our facts. People know that these things exist in other schools throughout the nation, but as soon as we say it’s in our own backyard, some like yourself get defensive. This is why we show them concrete examples of assignments by local district schools. We don’t believe we make real conservatives look bad at all. In fact, we have many hundreds, even thousands of great supporters all over the state and are considered almost heros for bringing these things up to parents so that they can pay more attention to their children’s assignments. Our only agenda is to state the truth, to encourage parents to be more involved, to push for better academics, to stop the Progressive Education in our local districts by national socialist/atheist/humanist leaders and to strive for the teaching of the greatness of America and its Constitution. Not sure why this causes so much controversy.
To answer your question, it has been a year and a half since I personally volunteered at the school. I finally began homeschooling after working in the classroom once a week for almost 2 years (since the week I moved here). I went on field trips as well. I have spoken to my children’s teachers, the principal, school board members, the district spokesperson and the superintendent many times, sometimes for hours and had very nice civil discussions with them. I showed up at school board meetings, even speaking at the one last year which had over 200 concerned parents in attendance. I have found that hundreds of parents have these same concerns so we got together to make up a website where we can reach parents and give them an outlet since some district leaders have their own agenda and don’t like to listen to parents who dare to disagree with them. All of the parents who make up and support this site have spent countless hours helping in the classroom, serving on community councils and participating as much as they can. We are educated and informed of what goes on. We love and appreciate many of our teachers, but realize that there are some things going on that need addressing, especially at the district level as it continues to push Progressive Education and a failed math program.
As far as our investigating skills, I highly disagree with your comment. No one has ever ONCE found anything we’ve found to be false, but there have been a few name callers who disagree with us without doing the research themselves. And if we weren’t good spokespeople we wouldn’t be asked to speak all over the state almost every week and to be on so many talk shows. We do indeed research and do it well. In fact, I wondered at first why you would be so defensive if you believed in all of the same concerns we do until I found that your husband is an English teacher at the same high school as the teacher who teaches his students that ‘communism isn’t really that bad’. Since your husband graduated from BYU with a BA and a Masters degree at the McKay School of Education , of course the two of you will be defensive until you do more homework. And one more thing, you say that you are a Utah State Delegate, but the newspapers refer to you as a FORMER “state GOP delegate, who is now disaffected from the Republican Party and considers herself an independent.” You said, “If the GOP comes back to constitutional principles rather than clutching fear, [you] would come back to the party.”
I agree with you that the Republican party has some things to work on and it needs to follow the Constitution, but I don’t believe that it is ‘clutching fear’. Unnecessary fear is coming from the left in the way of global climate change, overpopulation of the earth, the dangers of certain species going extinct, running out of fossil fuels, polar bears dying, etc, etc. Telling the truth about the socialistic takeover of this country and it’s public schools is meant to cause patriotic action from citizens, not fear. And next time you want to criticize us for how we handle the truth, please don’t introduce yourself as a current state delegate when you are not, and please let us know up front that you are married to a teacher in ASD who has earned two degrees from the McKay School of Education. It might better let the readers know where you are coming from.
Susie,
Thank you so much for your reply. While it is fresh in my head, let me comment on your last remark. I AM currently a state delegate for the Republican party. I did say what you quoted me as saying in the newspaper and I was challenged by a conservative group that I should run as a delegate and help bring the State Republican party back to its original platform. When I attended my caucus meeting with neighbors and friends, I made it clear that at that moment I was disenchanted with the Republican party, but I felt like my voice could make a difference. I felt like it did as we voted out Bob Bennett. So me being a delegate is true.
Yes, my husband is a wonderful public school teacher at American Fork High School. One of the unique traits that Sam brings to the table is his educational experience. He was home schooled, private schooled and public schooled.
We have NO ties to the NEA or the UEA. We don’t pay a dime to Unions. They truly are and will be the downfall to this nation. Sam and I are NOT defensive when it comes to public education. I will not speak for my husband, he can speak for himself. I don’t feel any pressure to defend public school because he is a school teacher, quite the contrary, I see more of what is happening than most.
My oldest daughter is a junior at AFHS and has an outstanding history teacher that actually teaches AMERICAN History and our Constitution (not the junk that some elite progressive YA YO in academia has written). I applaud his efforts and I am grateful that my child can be in his class. I am sorry that you have not experienced the same. Do I believe that there are progressives that are busy changing history and that have an agenda to bring it in the Educational arena? Yeah, big time I do. Do I believe that Rhonda Bromley or Vern Henshaw are ACTUALLY trying to indoctrinate the children of ASD, emphatically NO! Are there crappy teachers in the district that may have other agendas? Probably so. Does it bother me? Yes. But how I would handle it would be very different from the way it is being handled now. Just because you have been invited to speak on “radio programs” does not validate you or this organization. You know that to be true. Suzie, it is not the philosophy that I disagree with but the means of operation that I do. The attacks have gotten ugly and unfortunately personal. That is wrong, very wrong. I will continue to stand strongly for what I believe…however I will NOT participate in the mud-slinging. I would love to be contacted by you personally and discuss these issues. I find this type of communication more often than not is MIS communication. Please feel free to contact me.
Thank you,
Sarah Beeson
A REAL REPUBLICAN DELEGATE:)
AF Citizen
Sarah,
Thank you so much for writing back! I’m glad to know you are back in the Republican party trying to help fix the system. We sound like we have a lot in common. Just to let you know, I have had nothing to do with the teacher remarks you speak of, but have heard enough of the story to be concerned. I’d love to speak with you privately. I can shed some light on a few things so you have a better understanding of what is going on. Thanks again.
@SUZ, @Sarah,@AF22 and everyone else,
I believe everyone who has posted here has good intentions and are obviously passionate on the subject matter. With good reason. We are talking about the future of our kids and the future of our nation. The problem I see when reading in this forum, is not the facts but the lack of civility. Seriously if we were all looking at each other straight in the face, we would not be saying what has been said in this forum.
With that said, I applaud this website. I think it’s about time that we start asking questions like, where in the Constitution does it say that every child is entitled to a free Government run education? Public Education is nothing short of socialism. We have just accepted it because our parents accepted and so forth. There has also been no other alternative, except private school which is highly expensive, and homeschooling. We have found ourselves in quite a predicament. I imagine our children will be saying the same things in a few years about the soon to be nationalized health care.
When Government runs things, parents hands are tied. End of story. When taxpayers pay for something, the government gets to police it. They get to decide what is being taught and how.
I don’t know what the solution is. I have done both. I can honestly say I am torn. I want my kids to be educated my way, but also not miss out on extracurricluar activities that Public E has to offer. I think we need to teach our kids critical thinking. So that when Johnny comes home and say Mr. Smith said Communism isn’t a bad idea, we can ask Johnny, “What do you think?” Hopefully he’ll say something like, “Mr Smith must of forgot about Mao, and how many people he murdered in the name of communism”, or maybe “Mr. Smith has forgotten about Cuba where there are so many impoverished people just hoping to get on a row boat and come to our country.”
We are the Parents. We CAN teach are kids to think for themselves. Sorry I will step down now.
Don’t step down Michelle. You have great things to say. Please stand up and be an example. Hopefully this site opens up the communication we all need to have the best education we can for our next generation.
Thanks for the reply back. I will try and contact you…that is if I can find your contact info:)
Thanks!
Sarah
Thank you for calling me and having a civil discussion and a good one at that. There is an old Scottish saying, that would apply to me and you, Susie, since we are both strong and stubborn (in a good way:): “what ere thou art, act well thy part”. I think we both could say that we honestly try and do the best we can where we serve in our communities. I hope that wherever parents, teachers, and administrators find themselves in the tumult of opinions that they will be the best they can be and better. Especially when they find themselves on opposite sides. Thanks again Susie for a good discussion.
Sincerely,
Sarah Beeson
Sarah, great speaking with you too. It’s great to know we’re NOT on opposite sides, but share the exact same concerns and are willing to stand up for them. Sorry you were given some misinformation by others and thought we were at fault. Unfortunately that happens as emotions run high and people don’t do their research before they form opinions. I see where you were coming from and I appreciate and accept your sincere apology. I’d be upset too if those things were true that you had supposed. I appreciate how quickly you see truth and do your own research. You are a great lady.
check this out! I hope this won’t be coming to Utah Public Schools!
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/md-schools-will-now-require-environmental-literacy-to-graduate-high-school/
Good find Sarah. I found this after searching for No Child Left Inside, Utah:
“Governor Gary Herbert has declared next week No Child Left Inside Week for the state of Utah. It’s an effort to encourage Utah families to spend more time in the beautiful outdoors. To celebrate, Cache Valley’s No Child Left Inside committee invites local families for an evening of nature stories, music and exploration. Families are encouraged to put on hiking boots, pack some snacks and blankets to sit on and look for the No Child Left Inside signs directing people where to go.”
How can you possibly think this warm and fuzzy family program is bad?? Look it up I always say! This is the EXACT same program set up in Maryland to require radical environmentalism to be required in public schools for graduation. The Blaze article says 48 states are looking at adopting it. Sounds innocent, but this is exactly how they get these programs started. Thanks for pointing it out to us.