To read our response CLICK HERE
Friends and Neighbors -
I have debated writing for quite a while. I feel like I need to address some misconceptions that are being circulated about Alpine School District, as well as about me and other district leaders. I appreciate those of you who have come to me with specific concerns. Those of you who have taken the time to research issues for yourselves have uncovered the truth beneath the rhetoric, I thank you for your effort.
I am disturbed about the recent creation of a website called “Save ASD.” I want you to know that Alpine School District does not need to be “saved.” Great things are happening in the district. As with any organization, we always have room for improvement; and all 6,300 employees are constantly looking for ways to make those improvements.
In 2005, the School Board adopted the mission statement “Educating All Students to Ensure the Future of our Democracy.” This idea is taken from the writings of Thomas Jefferson, who believed that all children, regardless of social class, deserve a basic education. He and other Founding Fathers wished to steer away from the meritocracy that had extended them certain privileges based on social class and extend those privileges—such as education—to all citizens. Many believe that basic education is provided for in the Constitution, but it is not. It is something that Jefferson fought tirelessly for.
Over the last several months, some have expressed concern to the Board about the use of the word “Democracy” in the mission statement. In this context, the word is referring to “Our American Way of Life,” the same way it is used regularly by religious and political leaders. The fact that you were allowed to vote for a school board to represent you is evidence of democracy. The fact that the “saveasd” website could be created and opinions can be expressed freely and without legal repercussions is evidence of democracy. Our use of the term was not intended to be any kind of political statement or reference to any political party. The mission statement is referring to the fact that we all have a stewardship to prepare our students to become contributing citizens in our society.
The ASD Board of Education certainly understands and respects the fact that we have a Republican form of government. When concerns over the term were expressed, the Board needed to know if this was a small group of people expressing concern or if this is something that is felt district-wide, by the majority of the 100,000 homes within its boundaries. In response, the Board has spent the last few months visiting all 74 schools, as well as faculties, administrators, PTAs, School Community Councils, District Community Council, and clusters. They are currently synthesizing the data received so that they can make an informed decision about whether or not the mission statement should be changed. As employees of the district, we will support the decision of the Board.
Another concern that has been expressed is in regard to the “Moral Dimensions of Teaching.” Several years ago, all five districts along the Wasatch Front entered into a partnership with BYU called the CITES partnership. The districts included are Alpine, Provo, Nebo, Wasatch, and Jordan. Collectively, the partnership adopted what is called the “Moral Dimensions of Teaching,” and with it, four core values. In recent months some have raised concern about those values. Since last fall, the administrators and Board of Education have changed the way those values are worded because of those concerns. One of the words that was concerning to people was the word “enculturating.” Enculturation is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as “the gradual acquisition of the characteristics and norms of a culture or group.” This definition, for some reason, is threatening to some people. Therefore, the word “enculturating” is no longer used in the value statements of Alpine School District. It is not printed on anything, it is not on the website, and it is no longer hanging in any school or in any district office.
The four values of ASD are:
- To prepare students to become contributing citizens in our Democracy—our American way of life. As district employees, we have the opportunity to work with students from kindergarten to twelfth grade. After that, they will go a in variety of different directions. Some will go to college, some will immediately enter the work force, some will get married, some will go into the army, etc. They need to be prepared to be contributing citizens, no matter what they choose to do after they graduate.
- To establish an effective and caring environment (formerly referred to as a “Nurturing Pedagogy”). Recently, a patron of Alpine school district addressed the Board of Education and told them that the role of the Board and the employees of the district was to “stick to academics” and to leave the nurturing and caring to the parents. We in ASD disagree. Should the custodian not care about providing a safe and clean environment for students to learn? Should a nutritional services employee not care about having a healthy and nutritious lunch for students to eat so that they have energy to learn? Should a secretary not care when a students falls and is injured on the playground or when they come in to the office because they are not feeling well? Should a teacher not care if a student is struggling in class? Should a principal not care about communicating with parents as well as the overall academic success of the school? These are just a few examples of the ways that employees have and will continue to care and nurture the students of the district. As a parent of 6 children myself, I want to feel that I am sending my children to a place every day where people care about their success. The way teachers and administrators care and nurture my children, is important and does not take away from my role as their mother.
- Stewardship. We all have a role to play in the education of our students, and we each should take ownership of that role. The role of a teacher is different from the role of a custodian. The role of a Board member is different from the role of a principal. The role of a parent is different from the role of a secretary. Our children’s success takes all of us working together and having stewardship, whatever our role may be.
- Access to knowledge for ALL students. We have programs that address the needs of all students no matter what their ability or background. We have students that are struggling, students that are advanced, students that have physical or emotional disabilities, and students whose primary language is not English. Every one of these students must have the opportunity to advance and make daily improvements – no matter what the circumstance.
I would hope that any educational institution would have these same basic values: to prepare students for their future, to care about their success, to have stewardship in each person’s role in that success, and to provide a quality education for all of their students, no matter what their ability or background.
The Educator who originally wrote about the “Moral Dimensions of Teaching” was named John Goodlad. Unfortunately, some people are jumping to the conclusion that because several years ago BYU as well as the 5 districts in the CITES partnership adopted the “Moral Dimensions of Teaching” that somehow we “bow down” to everything John Goodlad has ever said or everything he believes. This could not be further from the truth. We do, however, stand behind the values of our district, values that were originally founded based on the works of John Goodlad.
As you will recall, President Monson, leader of the LDS church quoted Horace Mann in the Women’s Session of General Conference a few weeks ago. Does that mean that the LDS church “bows down” to everything Horace Mann has ever said, or that President Monson somehow believes everything that Horace Mann believes? Certainly not. Yet somehow many are making that same conclusion about Alpine School District. (Ironically, President Monson was giving a talk about being careful not to judge other people).
There are people that are spending a lot of time and energy doing research and sending out information about John Goodlad – implying that it is therefore information about Alpine School District. Again – that is not correct. The School Board and employees of the district have done research and studied the works of hundreds of educators over the years and will continue to do so. We believe in continuous improvement – always looking for ways to make things even better. For example, recently, we have adopted the use of Professional Learning Communities and collaboration focusing on the “four essential questions”. (What do we want students to learn? How will we know if they have learned it? What do we do if they didn’t understand? What about a student that understands and is ready to move on?) This originally came from the works of Educators Bob Eaker and Rick DuFour. We do not know what their religious beliefs are or how they voted in the last election. We do, however, stand behind the principles of PLC’s that have been adopted by ASD.
Another point of contention against Alpine School District is the use of the Investigations Math Program. After a few years with the program, the district changed and adopted a balanced approach, where teachers and parents at each school could decide which math program was best for their students. All schools in Alpine School District follow the state core curriculum for math, but schools have the right to choose their preferred methods for teaching. As a result, no school or teacher uses one exclusive method, but rather a balanced approach using different methods. Many parents, teachers, and administrators have chosen to include Investigations Math as one type of approach used. That decision is a school-based decision. But ironically, those people who were upset several years ago when Alpine School District “forced” teachers to use Investigations are now upset that the Board of Education is giving parents, teachers, and administrators the ability to choose which program is best for their students. This group would like our Board to “force” schools to use the program that they choose. How can it be wrong for the Board to choose for people several years ago, but now be wrong for schools to be able to choose for themselves?
I respect the fact that people have the right to choose what education is best for their own children. I have many friends, family members, and neighbors that choose to home school their children, or send their children to private or charter schools. I respect that choice if that is what they feel is best for their children. I am not going to question, or start a website, or try to find fault with those decisions. The fact that we are able to make those kinds of choices for our own children is an example of Democracy.
It is important for all of us to ask questions and do research on our own to find out if things that are being sent to us or told to us are true. I respect people having different opinions about issues. It is unfortunate when people choose to attack the integrity of others or to embellish things to try and get attention.
In response to the recently created website “Save ASD” I ask: Who or what is it about Alpine School District that anyone needs to be saved from?
Is it the thousands of teachers? Those who spend countless hours outside of their contract time and money out of their own pockets preparing to help students achieve at their highest levels every day?
Is it the administrators? The people who take ownership in their department or school by focusing on student achievement and continuous improvement?
Is it the custodians? The people that arrive at work at 5-6 a.m. each day to make sure the schools are safe and ready for the students?
Is it the bus drivers? Those that focus on safely getting thousands of students to and from school each day?
Is it the secretaries, the nutritional service workers, the playground aides, the coaches, or advisors?
Is it the past, current, or future School Board Members? Those who work tirelessly day after day, beyond their regular jobs, seeking input from all areas of the district so that they can make the most informed decisions for our children?
Is it the mission statement that we need to be saved from? Is it the values and goals of the district? Is it John Goodlad? Is it the BYU partnership? Is it the school children themselves?
I invite and encourage anyone that has a concern about Alpine School District to visit any of our 74 schools or departments. Talk to any of the thousands of employees to find out exactly what we need to be saved from. I invite you to do your own research and find out for yourself what is going on in our schools. I invite you to stop spending time creating websites and writing and sending e-mails to each other, but instead join the hundreds of other parents who are actually volunteering in the schools serving the children every day. If you find something that concerns you, I invite you to talk to the teacher, principal, or others so that your concern can be addressed. Don’t just believe what you are reading from me or from anyone else. Find out for yourself. You live in a country that allows you to do that. Take advantage of that right! I am confident that if you take time to do your own research and make your own decision, you will find that Alpine School District is accomplishing great things. You will find the best and most dedicated employees that have the students’ best interest at heart.
I have had a few people make the comment to me recently that “this isn’t personal”. I want you to know that it is personal. It’s personal to all 6,300 employees, it’s personal to all 67,000 students, as well as to thousands of parents and patrons in our district.
I am proud to work with 6,300 other people in Alpine School District that get up every day and do their best to make a difference in the lives of our students.
Rhonda Bromley
To read our response CLICK HERE
Rhonda, you just made their point–ASD needs to be saved from the hubris, unprofessionalism, and contempt for parents you just demonstrated. Did you really send this sarcastic diatribe out to over 5,000 employees of ASD?
Keep talking, you are digging your own grave.
I found nothing sarcastic or unprofessional about Mrs. Bromley’s letter. In fact, it alleviated some of my concerns. I have 3 children attending one of ASD’s elementary schools and have volunteered several hours at that school. In no way has any teacher, administrator, or staff member indoctrinated my children.
I expected the elections results would probably rattle the PTB but I didn’t expect a public meltdown by the district spokesperson. Wow.
What happened to the district’s dedication to “civil discourse?”
From my observation, there are parents, teachers, and now board members who are respectfully suggesting we get off the Goodlad/progressive bandwagon, and to please refocus on academics. This is the district’s official reply? Vern, time for some change on the staff.
So…the official ASD position is to defend the status quo: “We teach the philosophies of humanists…mingled with family values.”
The ASD Web site highlights the fundamental difference between their Progressive education philosophy (“we know better than the parents”) and traditional education (“we are accountable to the parents who elected us”). From the ASD Web site:
“…as a legislative body, our legal and ethical responsibility is to do what we consider is best…regardless of pressures or special interests.” http://tinyurl.com/24f2zkw
No, ASD adminstration, you are accountable to the Board, who hired you. Board members, you are accountable to the voters who elected you. This is democracy (or republic, take your pick) 101.
As disappointing as it is to hear this kind of tone from the ASD spokesperson, I suppose it’s good that their condescending attitude toward parents is finally coming out.
I took Bromley’s advice, and checked out a bunch of Goodlad books from the library. While talking a lot about nuturing and morals and democracy, Goodlad preaches the same progressive/collectivist dogma that Bromley et al are demonstrating, i.e., the state knows best, and parents need to be neutralized or co-opted. Yikes.
If ASD were a business, Rhonda would be boxing up her things right now. You just don’t freak out like that (at your customers, no less) and blast it to the entire organization.
There needs to be a complete overhaul of Alpine’s district personal. As a teacher I can’t believe the nonsense that Rhonda spews. Teachers are so scared to speak up about anything the district does. They know if they do then the district and the administrators make their lives miserable. There have been so many incredible teachers that have left because of the way the district does things. I wish more parents and teachers would speak up and do something. I am so grateful for this website and the information that is being given. Please, please do as Rhonda said and go ask some teachers how they really feel. I think all will be surprised how unhappy most teachers are. Thank you Rhonda for sending that letter to all district personal. I think it woke many employees up to the nonsense happening in the district.
Rhonda, an example of democracy is where 51% of the community can take away the rights of 49% of the community. Or when a majority of the school board can foist it’s biased views (many of which are strangely similar to John Goodlad’s) upon the minority of the school board and the conservative community it represents. The establishment of our Constitution was to protect us against such inequities, not promote them.
“What does ASD need to be saved from?”
Political bias, democracy (tyranny of the majority) and ignorance.
By the way, I have very reasonably voiced my concerns to principals, administrators and board members alike. And I have yet to meet one who is honest enough to answer ALL of my questions or address my serious concerns. Then again, what price would one pay, in a democratic district, for agreeing with me?
While you are interviewing what people think about the mission statement, don’t forget to ask the homeschooling parents or charter school parents who have left the district because many things weren’t going well for their children’s education. Another thing you should consider while you are so busy defending your progressive educators, like Goodlad and Horace Mann, when was the last time our district made sure that our children were learning about why we have a Republic and the difference between a Democracy and a Republic. When have we in a public school learned in depth about our Founding Fathers and that they fought against a Democratic form of Government. Also consider what has happened to our schools since we have taken God out of them (about 1957 or close to that) and by default become Atheist schools. Test scores have plummeted, morals are diminishing, drugs and teenage pregnancies are at very high rates. If we wonder what we need to do to fix our educational system, we need use educational material written by authors who have virtues in their lives. We should not look to Humanists who believe in socialism and want a Godless society. Just because President Monson quoted Horace Mann doesn’t mean he believes in his philosophies. He uses quotes from many people. I believe it is different to use a humanist or socialist quote as a school district’s mission statement, as the ASD has done. Pick someone to quote who our children could look up to. Children need to spend more time with their families, not long days at school just to come home and have hours of homework. Rhonda, you need to study the history of education. You have been enculturated by the public school system. The only difficulty may be that most people like you already think they are right and won’t allow themselves to be taught. I hope that you are not in that catagory.
I would like to know the exact words of Thomas Jefferson that gave us the purposed motto that has since been taken down. I cannot find anything in the writings I have read that come close to that.
Rhonda says:
“the fact that the “saveasd” website could be created and opinions can be expressed freely and without legal repercussions is evidence of democracy”
But, then she says:
“I am disturbed about the recent creation of a website called “Save ASD.”
And she also says:
“I invite you to stop spending time creating websites and writing and sending e-mails to each other”
I would surmise from these conflicting statements that ‘democracy’ is only to be approved for certain people with certain views and values.
I strongly agree with Rhonda when she seems to encourage research so that one might ‘learn for himself’:
“I invite you to do your own research and find out for yourself what is going on in our schools.”
“It is important for all of us to ask questions and do research on our own to find out if things that are being sent to us or told to us are true”
But, then, she is definitely not happy with parents/citizens when they DO research and learn much about the philosophies that are and have been the foundation for ASD’s mission statement and the Agenda behind the Moral Dimensions.
“There are people that are spending a lot of time and energy doing research and sending out information about John Goodlad”
Some of us have done our own research and the evidence of a disturbing Agenda is overwhelming. The emphasis to implement John Goodlad’s Agenda for Education in a Democracy is noticeable throughout writings of our educational ‘experts’ throughout the PSP.
To quote a recent article from Goodlad’s National Network for Educational Renewal (which Vern and others have been active participants and contributors to:
“As Dr. Goodlad has observed, education must be the foundation for seeking positive social and political change”.
Another recent NNER publication explaining the Agenda for Education in a Democracy states: “What is required is nothing short of a reinvention of the social and political framework of our society…”
I think this clearly explains the hidden agenda behind “Enculturating the young into a social and political democracy”. Yes, the wording of the mission statement and the Moral Dimensions has been changed and softened on ASD’s website, but, I don’t see any indication that the intent has been changed.
Fortunately, and thankfully, many wonderful teachers do not adhere to this Agenda. Nonetheless, this is the philosophy and a guiding influence at ASD. We have seen the dangers of Goodlad’s Agenda played out in some of the classrooms at ASD. There is good reason for parental and citizen concerns. Those who have expressed their concerns have been quite rational and measured as they have sought to illuminate what the Agenda is.
Thankfully, there are some concerned enough to study it out and learn for themselves. And then raise a warning voice to those who have ears to hear.
I’m certain the educated reader has noted that none of the four ASD values address the core foundation of education: ACADEMICS. Where is the excellence in reading, writing, math and the arts? Since Alpine School District children are internationally in the lower third in math (which accounts for why 75% of ASD students must take remedial math at Utah Valley University) and ASD students are struggling with writing, grammar and spelling upon graduation, ASD may want to consider changing the focus from a socialization focus to a focus on academics.
Point 4 has racist overtones. It suggests ASD does not expect much academically of immigrant students because they are language impaired. ASD should understand these students CAN achieve as much as any other student if much is expected AND if they are taught a high standard of English. This approach was proven out by Jamie Escalente at Garfield High School, a school with first generation immigrants. These students excelled at AP Calculus, History, English and Science. It is well documented. This exactly the opposite of what is happening at ASD, as suggested by point 4.
I love this, professor! I have been searching high and low for my Jaime Escalante book. Everything you say I applaud.
Rhonda’s letter to the ASD employees, Oak’s response, and comments like those above should be published and distributed throughout the district, and updated and reissued prior to the next school board election. Only those with ears to hear WILL hear, but the vast majority of citizens in the district “are kept from the truth only because they know not where to find it.”
I wouldn’t worry about what the school district was doing if my kids (all 5 of them) were being taught proper math & english skills, but they are not.
I’ve tried to help them with their homework but they are not being required to do math the way I was taught to do math (I’m an electrical engineer). They are being sent home with M&M’s in a jar and told to use that for their homework!
It has been very frustrating to find out that the “values” of Alpine School District do not include anything about academics. If “enculturating” is so important that it was blazoned on the district walls but nowhere do they think it important to mention traditional education, I think our “goverment” schools are becoming just brainwashing centers. Including brainwashing the teachers into thinking they are doing what’s best for the kids regardless of the statistics show or what the parents think.
My experience with my kids has shown that our local shools are failing to teach the foundational skills that give kids the means for genuine achievement, to be genuine contributors to our Republic.
The next election can’t come soon enough!
I happened to be reading the forward in Noah Webster’s 1828 Dictionary this morning. I have been following the comments on this website and would like to add this preface to his dictionary. Yes, Noah Webster himself.
Upon Horace Mann rests the blame for removing from the curriculum the study of an American philosophy of government. Opposed to the fundamental conceptions of our American Constitution namely, property, self-government and voluntary union, Horace Mann, “the father of progressive education”, removed the spirit of Constitutionalism and allowed only the letter to remain. The Bible, which Noah Webster indicated as the source of “the principles of republican government’ was closed to its primary function–namely to testify of God’s redeeming grace for mankind through Jesus Christ. Actually, it was Horace Mann in 1840′s who removed the Bible and its sacred purpose from the schools, not the United States Supreme Court in the 1960″s.
Through the European pilgrimages of Horace Mann and his contemporaries the alien seeds of foreign ideologies and philosophies of education were planted in American soil. The independence from European “maxims of government” which Noah Webster has worked so diligently to achieve was subverted during the early years when American education was subverted during the early years when American education was made the ward of the state. A Federal Catechism, part of the American Spelling Book had introduced civics into the cirruculum in 1794. It gave a short explanation of the principles of the American Constitution and defined America as “a representative republic.” The “defects of democracy” were discussed and students learned distinctly why a “federal representative republic” is “a better form of governement.” Shortly after schools became organized under state systems, the substitution of democracy for republic was made.
Today the necessity for restoring the clarity and identity of Constitutional meanings is obvious if we are to make substantial progress in rebuilding the foundations upon which this nation was established. Without a standard of reference for American history the philosophy of government students can not be expected to make the distinctions and discriminations between similar terms used in history tests today.
Thank you Noah Webster
In my oppinion this pretty well sums it up. Noah Webster understood this in 1828, why is it so hard for us to understand it 2010. I guess because we have to progress. Right?
What cracks me up is how well-informed, articulate and educated so many of our readers are, yet we are not allowed to question the ‘educated elite’ because they have so much more knowledge than simple-minded parents. How many times do you hear someone say, “I happened to be reading the forward in Noah Webster’s 1828 Dictionary this morning.” LOL. In this crowd, it’s probably not too infrequent!
I hope that parents are realizing and gaining confidence after reading so many of these great comments that they should play a much bigger role in their children’s education at home and at school.
“As you will recall, President Monson, leader of the LDS church quoted Horace Mann in the Women’s Session of General Conference a few weeks ago…..”
No, I do not recall as I am not LDS. Would you please keep your religion or any reference to it out of the public school system? It has no place here.
After reading these comments, GO RHONDA.
Eye new Yutah was dumm, but man, you peeple in alpine are something else….
If you want a theocracy, start a revolution and fight for it.
Too many Glenn Beck “followers” on this site. If you are so concerned about you childs education, then homeschool them. If you want to make public schools better volunteer to help, don’t complain.
af22;
Your suggestion has been taken by enough parents to fill 14 Charter schools in ASD alone! And it wasn’t because parents were GB “followers”. Most schools formed around the time Investigations Math was implemented, and parents were increasingly frustrated by their attempts to do as you are suggesting – becoming involved in the schools. Thousands of families protested this program, and ASD turned their back on them. Parents hired tutors, homeschooled, and started charter schools. And now parents are opening their eyes to the fact that ASD has joined the scores of other districts around the nation who are trying to make a political statement and forward a progressive social movement starting with our children. Every tax payer, children or no children in public schools, has a right and an obligation to speak out when they see the community’s children being dumbed down and socialized into a political movement that doesn’t agree with their principles or beliefs.
This diatribe by Mrs. Bromley is nothing but personal belief, and neither addresses the issues or presents substantive facts. The fact that the School “spokesperson” can write an informal letter of personal belief, have it sent through district email, attached to school newsletters, presented to City Councils and not be called on the carpet for it is a sad statement on this districts responsiveness to parents and it’s ability to maintain professional decorum.
Just a clarification. Rhonda writes: “After a few years with the program, the district changed and adopted a balanced approach, where teachers and parents at each school could decide which math program was best for their students.”
This is inaccurate – no, actually, it is deceptive. Parents new to the district may fall for this misrepresentation, but those of us who fought this math issue long and hard know this to be a complete misrepresentation of fact. The district didn’t just change the math program after a few years. She makes it sound so simple. The impetus for change was thousands of parents complaining and petitioning the district, pulling their children out of the schools, hiring tutors, remedial and after school math programs having to be started within some schools, parents removing their children from the district and placing them in Charter Schools (14 popped up in the past 12 years!), and ultimately the threat of Orem schools splitting from the district and creating a city-wide school district (the vote going against the decision on the promise of the district to drop Investigations math). By leaving out key information, Mrs. Bromley leads the uneducated reader to believe the district completely innocent and parents once again in the wrong.
Mrs. Bromley states: “I have had a few people make the comment to me recently that “this isn’t personal”. I want you to know that it is personal. It’s personal to all 6,300 employees, it’s personal to all 67,000 students, as well as to thousands of parents and patrons in our district.”
I am one of those thousands of parents. My children have been amongst those 67,000 students. And you are right. This is personal. It is my children, their education, and our tax payer dollars that are being misused, our voices unheard, and our opinions and actions that are being publicly disparaged through your letter. You do not speak for me, nor my family. You have over-stepped your bounds in attempting to do so for any constituent of this district.
As a former teacher of social sciences and English in the Alpine school district (and a graduate of the BYU education program), I am appalled that ANYTHING Godlad said is anywhere near the system at all. Alpine and, for that matter the whole valley, contains a majority of people with conservative values–religiously, morally and politially. It is an affront to those who are paying the bills for their children’s education that they are following teachings of a man who believes in “eculturing” these students away from their parents values and into the morass of “social engineering” and “social Justice” teaching. Social Justice is simply a codeword for communism. (See attached)
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guides/Z-Social%20Justice-Code%20for%20Communism.htm
Marx and Lenin would be proud of you BYU and Alpine School District. I’m simply ashamed that you have jumped on the bandwagon of pop culture educationese.
Apologizing for two typos in the above. My keyboard needs replacing and keys are sometimes sticking. Please revise in your minds. I should have proofed but am running late.
I was included as a parent on a committee to study a change in the structure and curriculum of our school district. When Goodladish ideas were introduced and I fought back against them I was kind of verbally patted on the head and told, “We’re the professionals–we know what is best. These children aren’t really yours–they are society’s possessions etc.” To their chagrin I told them I was also a credentialed teacher with an advanced degree and I knew what their Social Justice (the kind with a capital SJ really was all about–Communism, minimizing the influence of parents and “enculturing” kids to be zombies controlled by the state. I think I left them speechless.